KVR Audio

J-909 · Post by **J-909** » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:51 am

What's up guys,

New to Live here and trying to this:

I have a few tracks whose output goes exclusively to an empty audio track (to act as a group one and place some effects there). I want to create only automation clips in this empty audio track, I mean, clips that only control automation data of the plugins inserted in it and which one can launch in session view. The idea is to jam with the mix's effects independently of the particular clips originating the sound.

This is peace of cake in Bitwig but I can't seem to make it in Live. Is it possible?

Cheers

Michaelparkinson · Post by **Michaelparkinson** » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:13 am

More straightforward in arrange view but in session view I think you have to arm the track and actually record a clip to do this. Then you can jam live, overdub or draw the automation.

J-909 · Post by **J-909** » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:49 pm

Michaelparkinson wrote:More straightforward in arrange view but in session view I think you have to arm the track and actually record a clip to do this. Then you can jam live, overdub or draw the automation.

Will try! I don't know if it will work cos in "Auto" mode the track is supposed to play the clip content when not armed and the input itself when armed. If there is a clip it'll probably not play the input signal. Will write when I try it.

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:24 pm

Perhaps 'dummy clips' are what you need ...
https://ask.audio/articles/ableton-live ... /advertise

J-909 · Post by **J-909** » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:53 pm

thecontrolcentre wrote:Perhaps 'dummy clips' are what you need ...
https://ask.audio/articles/ableton-live ... /advertise

Yes mate, that's kind of it, but I don't get why one needs to put any audio material for it to work. Doesn't make sense to me

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:05 pm

J-909 wrote:
thecontrolcentre wrote:Perhaps 'dummy clips' are what you need ...
https://ask.audio/articles/ableton-live ... /advertise
Yes mate, that's kind of it, but I don't get why one needs to put any audio material for it to work. Doesn't make sense to me

You don't need to add any audio clips. That's the whole point.

J-909 · Post by **J-909** » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:17 pm

thecontrolcentre wrote:
J-909 wrote:
thecontrolcentre wrote:Perhaps 'dummy clips' are what you need ...
https://ask.audio/articles/ableton-live ... /advertise
Yes mate, that's kind of it, but I don't get why one needs to put any audio material for it to work. Doesn't make sense to me
You don't need to add any audio clips. That's the whole point.

All right, I misunterstood the tutorial. Will try later

pottering · Post by **pottering** » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:33 pm

J-909 wrote:
thecontrolcentre wrote:Perhaps 'dummy clips' are what you need ...
https://ask.audio/articles/ableton-live ... /advertise
Yes mate, that's kind of it, but I don't get why one needs to put any audio material for it to work. Doesn't make sense to me

What's confusing you is that Ableton Live has separate MIDI and Audio tracks, Audio Tracks only hold audio, MIDI Tracks only MIDI.

It is not like Bitwig which has hybrid tracks that can hold both MIDI and audio.

As to "why Live is like that?", pretty much all DAWs have separate MIDI and Audio tracks, so it is either easier to program and debug, or Ableton decided to follow established conventions of earlier DAWs.

shonky · Post by **shonky** » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:05 pm

I'd do a search for Tom Cosm and Mr Bill on youtube, those guys are the dapper dons of dummy clips, I think even doing meta-dummy clips (dummy clips that are fed out to other dummy clips for further processing).

J-909 · Post by **J-909** » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:16 pm

pottering wrote:
J-909 wrote:
thecontrolcentre wrote:Perhaps 'dummy clips' are what you need ...
https://ask.audio/articles/ableton-live ... /advertise
Yes mate, that's kind of it, but I don't get why one needs to put any audio material for it to work. Doesn't make sense to me
What's confusing you is that Ableton Live has separate MIDI and Audio tracks, Audio Tracks only hold audio, MIDI Tracks only MIDI.

It is not like Bitwig which has hybrid tracks that can hold both MIDI and audio.

As to "why Live is like that?", pretty much all DAWs have separate MIDI and Audio tracks, so it is either easier to program and debug, or Ableton decided to follow established conventions of earlier DAWs.

Thanx for your comment mate but I'm not such a newbie to production (10 years..)

(The question itself is not about audio or midi signal flow but the use of empty audio tracks as routing channels and aplying automation clips to it).

Cheers anyway

J-909 · Post by **J-909** » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:32 pm

thecontrolcentre wrote:
J-909 wrote:
thecontrolcentre wrote:Perhaps 'dummy clips' are what you need ...
https://ask.audio/articles/ableton-live ... /advertise
Yes mate, that's kind of it, but I don't get why one needs to put any audio material for it to work. Doesn't make sense to me
You don't need to add any audio clips. That's the whole point.

All right, I tried many of the things out there about dummy clips and you DO need audio clips (silent ones, but audio clips indeed). I had already tried that myself before (so I was already using dummy clips before asking this question

). I still don't get why the need to have empty audio for controlling aut. Bitwig is more coherent regadring this.

J-909 · Post by **J-909** » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:33 pm

shonky wrote:I'd do a search for Tom Cosm and Mr Bill on youtube, those guys are the dapper dons of dummy clips, I think even doing meta-dummy clips (dummy clips that are fed out to other dummy clips for further processing).

Did it, it confirmed my inital idea (strange way to do things in Live). Cheers

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:36 am

J-909 wrote:
thecontrolcentre wrote:
J-909 wrote:
thecontrolcentre wrote:Perhaps 'dummy clips' are what you need ...
https://ask.audio/articles/ableton-live ... /advertise
Yes mate, that's kind of it, but I don't get why one needs to put any audio material for it to work. Doesn't make sense to me
You don't need to add any audio clips. That's the whole point.
All right, I tried many of the things out there about dummy clips and you DO need audio clips (silent ones, but audio clips indeed). I had already tried that myself before (so I was already using dummy clips before asking this question ). I still don't get why the need to have empty audio for controlling aut. Bitwig is more coherent regadring this.

You need an empty audio clip because Live won't play the slot if it's empty. Get over it or stay with Bitwig, because I frankly don't understand why you'd ever convert to Live...

J-909 · Post by **J-909** » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:25 pm

antic604 wrote:I frankly don't understand why you'd ever convert to Live...

Not converting to Live , it's about compatibility with workmates' setups.

I wouldn't give up on Bitwig at all, it seems the future DAW to me (if things are done well)

Live 9/10: Only automation clips in empty audio tracks?