Logic Pro v10.4 is out

[Krakatau]

Cuckos are not Apple

[machinesworking]

Cuckos are not Apple

That's some selective quoting there! FAKE NEWS!

[pdxindy]

You're using your own definitions for these things, that's the issue. In every computer music based forum for every DAW I've used and general forums like this, upgrade has meant paid, update has meant free.

Yes, some DAWs updates are better than other DAWs upgrades, but that doesn't change the fact that those terms have specific meanings in colloquial conversations related to music production software. And no, I do not think it would be a good idea to have to scan every article on an 'update' to find out if it's a free 'update' or a paid one because you think the terms are interchangeable because a couple DAW companies offer really good updates.

There is nothing wrong with being precise.

I don't disagree with your general point... However, the definitions have changed over time. Years ago, updates mainly meant bug fixes and/or maintenance and not significant features. Now the only consistent difference is whether it costs or not. However, I regularly see someone say or imply that it is more than cost (like the person I responded to). That is a carry over from the past that is no longer true.

Now even a single update can be bigger than an upgrade. Often a few combined updates are bigger than a paid upgrade. The practice has changed significantly.

[pdxindy]

It is not true that with Logic Pro there is no difference between an update and an upgrade. There is actually a very clear rationale behind the way they do things and there is a roadmap they follow. A version upgrade will always be major change to the app, usually changes under the hood to the underlying engine. Also features which aren’t quite ready at release time will get implemented in point updates.

Logic X for example; simplified the entire workflow, changed the keyboard shortcuts, changed the UI, brought in pitch editing, drummers & new midi fx. Logic 9 also introduced a new UI, a new audio engine and brought in elastic Audio.

To be fair Affinity Photo and Designer haven’t had drastic changes beyond what the developers always initially promised. Affinity Photo 2 will definitely be a full price upgrade. Look what the developer of Pixelmator has done with the new version of his app.

Right... so I, as a consumer, keep getting many significant updates that can sometimes be as feature rich as paid upgrades (and cumulatively way beyond)... and I get them for free. With most app store purchases I have yet to have to pay anything a second time and years go by with impressive development.

I responded to your point that it is anti-consumer. It isn't. It's friendly for the consumer.

[macmuse]

Speaking of MPE how do you set up the remote to output MPE? I want the keyboard to be like the one in the screenshot here (last one on right):

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/logic-r ... tform/ipad

not the piano type keys, but can't find that one

wish it had the Animoog keyboard

Wait, Logic Remote will do MPE?!! In that it may be [somewhat of] a substitute for the ROLI? If so,

What else is needed aside from Logic Remote?

[machinesworking]

I don't disagree with your general point... However, the definitions have changed over time. Years ago, updates mainly meant bug fixes and/or maintenance and not significant features. Now the only consistent difference is whether it costs or not. However, I regularly see someone say or imply that it is more than cost (like the person I responded to). That is a carry over from the past that is no longer true.

Now even a single update can be bigger than an upgrade. Often a few combined updates are bigger than a paid upgrade. The practice has changed significantly.

I've never mentioned or implied that upgrades were always more feature rich than updates. There are a few companies where updates are as feature rich over time as the initial upgrade list, and Logic is certainly one of them. The point has always been that we need to keep the meaning of the terms distinct. Upgrade = paid release, update = free release.

[pdxindy]

Speaking of MPE how do you set up the remote to output MPE? I want the keyboard to be like the one in the screenshot here (last one on right):

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/logic-r ... tform/ipad

not the piano type keys, but can't find that one

wish it had the Animoog keyboard

Wait, Logic Remote will do MPE?!! In that it may be [somewhat of] a substitute for the ROLI? If so,

What else is needed aside from Logic Remote?

I think Logic Remote can only do per note pitchbends (x axis). Y axis no... maybe Z axis on the iPhone with 3d touch. Haven't tried that. So it is something... but no substitute for the expressive feeling of my Linnstrument.

[Bombadil]

It is also touch sensitive, as far as I can tell.

[Jace-BeOS]

Some of the basic stuff is rather intuitive, but many things are rather idiosyncratic. They’re taken for granted by Logic users, sounds like, but they’re not that obvious when you come to the software as an outsider.

The biggest UI flaw or hurdle for new users IMO in Logic is also the flaw in Reaper, in that the in/out of a MIDI track is not transparent. Compared to DP and Live which both show you the MIDI in and out port and channel without any room for error, Logic is byzantine with it's Click and Ports layer, unmentioned soft synth port limitation, keyboard control by selection etc. None of this is noticeable if you only use one keyboard for Logic though.

Agreed. Having to learn the Environment to set up external synths was a weird thing to me. Now that I've done it a couple times, and use a template I made for future projects, it's not a difficulty to me. But, having been able to just select MIDI ports on each track itself in Sonar, I was definitely left confounded at first (but Sonar confounded me with its weird mutant hybrid combined tracks for software synths, so...).

Isn't Cubase like Logic in this way? I remember trying to wrap my head around the VST Setup screen of Cubase 4.x and not enjoying it... And then there's Live. I never learned it at all. It just felt so alien. I eventually just stopped trying and continued with my linear DAWs.

I'm not saying everyone should work the same way I do, just that I felt lots of Logic was intuitive. But yeah, some of it isn't and I forget that once I get past a weird area of unique design. Sorry if I sounded dismissive!

[Jace-BeOS]

Can you get a the correct pitchbend with Sculpture even with just 1 note?

I'm not sure. It seems much more subtle than ES2, for example, but I've not measured the shift. I was more focused on the MPE aspect than on the pitchbend's accuracy.

Unless the problem is different for each of us, it is the pitchbend that has the problem... making it appear that MPE is not working.

I definitely notice pitch bend working. It's just not doing the notes independently. I can hold two notes, slide one on the Logic Remote keyboard, and both notes will change pitch instead of the single one I am sliding.

[Jace-BeOS]

Speaking of MPE how do you set up the remote to output MPE?

I'd like to know the answer to this question myself since the "what's new" notes for Logic 10.3 indicated there were added MIDI Mono Mode controls on Logic Remote for various instruments. I see no such controls anywhere in the Remote app. No one on the Logic Pro Help forum has yet answered my inquiry as to where these controls are.

So far, it just seems to go by preset (suggesting invisible controls) or just by enabling MIDI Mono Mode on Logic's instruments (those that have it), except I can't get Sculpture to work in this mode at all and I only have Logic Remote to test it with (no other MPE controller).

Still, the statements in the "what's new" document for Logic 10.3 go unexplained.

[Jace-BeOS]

Speaking of MPE how do you set up the remote to output MPE? I want the keyboard to be like the one in the screenshot here (last one on right):

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/logic-r ... tform/ipad

not the piano type keys, but can't find that one

wish it had the Animoog keyboard

Wait, Logic Remote will do MPE?!! In that it may be [somewhat of] a substitute for the ROLI? If so,

What else is needed aside from Logic Remote?

I think Logic Remote can only do per note pitchbends (x axis). Y axis no... maybe Z axis on the iPhone with 3d touch. Haven't tried that. So it is something... but no substitute for the expressive feeling of my Linnstrument.

Aftertouch is the vertical axis (slide along the top-to-bottom length of a key), but it seems very few presets use this, so it seemed to me to be absent when I was first trying the app. It's not configurable in the app, so you'll have to set up aftertouch in the Logic instruments. Very little seems configurable in the app, really. EDIT 2: I am unsure if aftertouch is also working in MIDI Mono Mode but I seem to remember it doing independent notes the one patch I noticed aftertouch applied to. I'd have to intentionally go check again to be sure. But if it is only sending pitch bend in MIDI Mono Mode, that would seem a strange oversight.

EDIT: Not having used Logic Remote on my iPhone 6s, I'm not aware of any 3D Touch usage. Interestingly, apps can be written to respond to the size of a touch point and this can therefore simulate pressure (the more firm your touch, the more skin is contacting the touch surface), but I've only found one app that does this (the excellent FingerFiddle). Logic Remote doesn't seem to do it either. Weirdly ignored touch feature.

[pdxindy]

Can you get a the correct pitchbend with Sculpture even with just 1 note?

I'm not sure. It seems much more subtle than ES2, for example, but I've not measured the shift. I was more focused on the MPE aspect than on the pitchbend's accuracy.

Unless the problem is different for each of us, it is the pitchbend that has the problem... making it appear that MPE is not working.

I definitely notice pitch bend working. It's just not doing the notes independently. I can hold two notes, slide one on the Logic Remote keyboard, and both notes will change pitch instead of the single one I am sliding.

Huh... I started with a fresh project, added an instance of Sculpture and now pitchbend is working, but MPE is not... same as you... weird

[pdxindy]

Speaking of MPE how do you set up the remote to output MPE? I want the keyboard to be like the one in the screenshot here (last one on right):

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/logic-r ... tform/ipad

not the piano type keys, but can't find that one

wish it had the Animoog keyboard

Wait, Logic Remote will do MPE?!! In that it may be [somewhat of] a substitute for the ROLI? If so,

What else is needed aside from Logic Remote?

I think Logic Remote can only do per note pitchbends (x axis). Y axis no... maybe Z axis on the iPhone with 3d touch. Haven't tried that. So it is something... but no substitute for the expressive feeling of my Linnstrument.

Aftertouch is the vertical axis (slide along the top-to-bottom length of a key), but it seems very few presets use this, so it seemed to me to be absent when I was first trying the app. It's not configurable in the app, so you'll have to set up aftertouch in the Logic instruments. Very little seems configurable in the app, really. EDIT 2: I am unsure if aftertouch is also working in MIDI Mono Mode but I seem to remember it doing independent notes the one patch I noticed aftertouch applied to. I'd have to intentionally go check again to be sure. But if it is only sending pitch bend in MIDI Mono Mode, that would seem a strange oversight.

EDIT: Not having used Logic Remote on my iPhone 6s, I'm not aware of any 3D Touch usage. Interestingly, apps can be written to respond to the size of a touch point and this can therefore simulate pressure (the more firm your touch, the more skin is contacting the touch surface), but I've only found one app that does this (the excellent FingerFiddle). Logic Remote doesn't seem to do it either. Weirdly ignored touch feature.

Logic Remote has some sort of 'velocity' sensitivity on my iPad Pro (which has no pressure sensitivity as such). Playing a note harder makes it louder, but it is not very sensitive. It might actually be just 2 states.

Yes, I just tried aftertouch and that is the Y axis. It did not seem to work with a quick test because I hit the note along the Y axis and it remained the same. It only works by sliding after hitting the note. I have my Linnstrument configured so that wherever I hit the note changes the Y axis value (Timbre). And yes, it does not seem to be per voice, but global.

[machinesworking]

Some of the basic stuff is rather intuitive, but many things are rather idiosyncratic. They’re taken for granted by Logic users, sounds like, but they’re not that obvious when you come to the software as an outsider.

The biggest UI flaw or hurdle for new users IMO in Logic is also the flaw in Reaper, in that the in/out of a MIDI track is not transparent. Compared to DP and Live which both show you the MIDI in and out port and channel without any room for error, Logic is byzantine with it's Click and Ports layer, unmentioned soft synth port limitation, keyboard control by selection etc. None of this is noticeable if you only use one keyboard for Logic though.

Agreed. Having to learn the Environment to set up external synths was a weird thing to me. Now that I've done it a couple times, and use a template I made for future projects, it's not a difficulty to me. But, having been able to just select MIDI ports on each track itself in Sonar, I was definitely left confounded at first (but Sonar confounded me with its weird mutant hybrid combined tracks for software synths, so...).

Isn't Cubase like Logic in this way? I remember trying to wrap my head around the VST Setup screen of Cubase 4.x and not enjoying it... And then there's Live. I never learned it at all. It just felt so alien. I eventually just stopped trying and continued with my linear DAWs.

I'm not saying everyone should work the same way I do, just that I felt lots of Logic was intuitive. But yeah, some of it isn't and I forget that once I get past a weird area of unique design. Sorry if I sounded dismissive!

Out of curiosity, and possible emulation, what's your method? Back in the Days of Logic 4-8 I would set up hardware synths and controller keyboards drum pads etc. in the MIDI layer of the Environment, then delete the Sum in Click and Ports and separately couple each input to the sequencer Input. These days it seems the best method is just to use separate MIDI channels for each hardware MIDI input device, this way in the future I can use the touch screen Raven here with V-control Pro etc. without any possible hiccups... besides my initial attempt to do that seemed to prove my hunch that Logic is now hardwired to receive MIDI from any controller on the track that's currently selected in the Arrange page.