DDMF Plugindoctor

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
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Robert Randolph
KVRAF
2162 posts since 25 May, 2003 from Saint Petersburg, Florida

Post Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:09 pm

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
plexuss wrote:TimP and some others are suggesting there are issues with PluginDoctor that is causing the crazy phase plots using N4. I guess I will contact Christian about it.
I've seen this with not just Nebula plugins, but also others. I'm thinking it has to do with latency. For instance, off the top of my head, DMG Audio's EQuilibrium had some crazy phase plots too in linear phase mode until I increased the impulse length.
That is the case, I'm 100% certain.

You can replicate this with a simple delay if you wish:

Image

It seems that Nebula isn't reporting latency correctly, or Plugindoctor is not compensating correctly.
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Zaphod (giancarlo)
KVRAF
2404 posts since 23 Jun, 2006

Re: DDMF Plugindoctor

Post Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:28 pm

Several old engines could report latency uncorrectly. Anyway several analyzers can't handle sometimes higher delays (ie vstanalyzer had a fix because that)
Just don't forget the basic latency reported by nebula is sometimes higher then the buffer commonly used by analyzers

User avatar
docdued
KVRian
649 posts since 2 Apr, 2005 from out there

Re: DDMF Plugindoctor

Post Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:22 am

There certainly was an issue with Plugindoctor and plugins that change their reported latency after being initially loaded (like Nebula does when switching presets/models). Version 1.0.2 has just been uploaded which should take care of this.

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DuX
KVRAF
3630 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from Underworld

Re: DDMF Plugindoctor

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:32 pm

The TBProAudio CS-3301 channel strip 1.4.4 crashes it when you press the oversampling button.

Also, the phase response for the HP/LP filters is inverted for it, according to C.B.'s VST Analyser. I don't think TBPro would make that kind of a mistake.
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dreamvoid
KVRist
207 posts since 8 Jun, 2009

Re: DDMF Plugindoctor

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:24 pm

Robert Randolph wrote: That is the case, I'm 100% certain.

You can replicate this with a simple delay if you wish:

Image

It seems that Nebula isn't reporting latency correctly, or Plugindoctor is not compensating correctly.
I get this with McDSP ML8000 - doesn't seem right. Any explanations?
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Funkybot's Evil Twin
KVRAF
5730 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Re: DDMF Plugindoctor

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:56 pm

Are you using version 1.02? Plugins that changed latency in a particular way were causing problems with the phase graphs in versions 1 and 1.01. This has been fixed in version 1.02. So update if you haven't already.

dreamvoid
KVRist
207 posts since 8 Jun, 2009

Re: DDMF Plugindoctor

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:43 pm

it is 1.0.2 ...

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DuX
KVRAF
3630 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from Underworld

Re: DDMF Plugindoctor

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:01 pm

1.0.2 here, too.
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

HoRNet
KVRist
153 posts since 18 Feb, 2011 from Italy

Re: DDMF Plugindoctor

Post Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:50 am

RPH wrote:Excellent tool, insta-buy.

Bug: Hornet HoRNetTape_x64 and HoRNetMulticompPlusMK2_x64 plugins crash here when oversampling is set to 2x or 4x.
( Win 10 x64, GTX980, 16GB mem, plugindoctor v1.0.1 )
I think i'll get in touch with DDMF to see what causes the crash!

Saverio

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TB-ProAudio
KVRist
443 posts since 16 May, 2014 from Germany

Re: DDMF Plugindoctor

Post Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:17 am

DuX wrote:The TBProAudio CS-3301 channel strip 1.4.4 crashes it when you press the oversampling button.

Also, the phase response for the HP/LP filters is inverted for it, according to C.B.'s VST Analyser. I don't think TBPro would make that kind of a mistake.
Hmm, works here wo problems. Which OS and which plug-in format are you using?
Thank you!

Compyfox
KVRAF
14253 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany

Re: DDMF Plugindoctor

Post Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:22 am

I finally got the time to dive a bit into this host (demo version) - and for me, it is not(!) an "instant-buy".

:arrow: Let me explain:
It is definitely stabbing at the (now sadly very, very) old C.Budde VST Plugin Analyzer. But this is where it ends. It's a somewhat dumbed down version (certain features not hidden behind hotkeys), although definitely better documented (old VSTPluginAnalyzer didn't have a manual). A lot of "experts" are definitely going to be inbound.



There are a lot of things that highly annoy me with the demo alone. Mainly the fact that it doesn't save settings every time the host is closed. Or the 20s "Demo taking a break" thing like every half minute or so. But that's just a sidenote.


What I don't like, are the following things:

1) Frequencies can't be set manually:
You only have a dropdown menu. And on first load of the plugin, I could only scroll down to 530Hz - I didn't have access to higher frequencies, only after I clicked wildly through the settings. Also - 1kHz is not 1kHz, but depending on the sampling rate used for measurements, 1022,83Hz or 1054,69Hz. Well, good if you want to find out aliasing. Though a considered "standard" is 1kHz for THD+N tests. And speaking of which:


2) THD+N Harm Signal amp plot readout is not equal to the value:
At 0dB it's actually -6dB on the graph. If I pull the signal down to -18dBFS, I get a readout of -24dBFS peak. Can't be normal, right? Unless something was smoothed.


3) Zooming is not good:
Here I really prefer something similar as to what Christian once did. You could drag directly on the scale and find your points this way. Drag top left - reset everything, drag top right - reset X axis, drag bottom left - reset Y-axis. Something along those lines. Resizing the whole UI is also possible via diagonal dragging. Not horizontal or vertical.

Fullscreen mode - possible, but HOLY CARP the fonts are huge!


4) Screenshots and store function
I admire the effort here. But you can only store one(!) plot state - not several. And the screenshots - while you can definitely drop PNGs, it's not only the plot, but also half of the top buttons and the other control buttons. Another question that would instantly pop up from developers viewpoints "can we use the plots in manuals?". Since they're not clean, and actually black (and not a white BG), that is also troublesome


5) does the UI have to be "dark"?
I understand a certain dislike for a "bright UI" - but for such tools, it would be better. Also: pink for L and Cyan for R? Okay...



Other than that, I also had the occasional crash with Cytomic tools, Hornet Plugins, etc. On v1.0.2, Win7 Pro SP1 (Convenience Rollup). The host works "somewhat" fast, sometimes a bit wonky - do I don't know how much AA (2x, 4x, 8x, 16x) was used for the OpenGL rendering. But there is definitely room for more for this tool. Like... certain features on the main UI (frequency selection), an info text that shows in txt form "inputs/Outputs, Latency, etc", custom color setup for L/R channels and UI, "output" module to measure hardware, etc

This feels a bit like Metaplugin all over... great start... but the competition didn't sleep and made better modular subhosts.




:?: Will I buy it?

Not yet. For the time being, I'm more than happy with what I can do with similar if not the same test sequences / test signals and Lightbridge Signalizer. Sans the Phase Response (for the time being, dev working on it) and not a fancy "ramp" view for a compressor. But still. It served me well in recent months,and I did well with other tools after VSTPluginAnalyzer got simply... discontinued. I'm sure they'll keep me company for the next months as well.


I'll keep an eye on this though.
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TB-ProAudio
KVRist
443 posts since 16 May, 2014 from Germany

Re: DDMF Plugindoctor

Post Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:22 am

TB-ProAudio wrote:
DuX wrote:The TBProAudio CS-3301 channel strip 1.4.4 crashes it when you press the oversampling button.

Also, the phase response for the HP/LP filters is inverted for it, according to C.B.'s VST Analyser. I don't think TBPro would make that kind of a mistake.
Hmm, works here wo problems. Which OS and which plug-in format are you using?
Thank you!
OK, i tested CS-3301 a second time against PluginDoctor (Win, x32):
It seems that the phase is inverted (compared to VSTAnalyzer)
Enabling OS crashes PD, VSTAnalyzer is good.

Funkybot's Evil Twin
KVRAF
5730 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Re: DDMF Plugindoctor

Post Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:49 am

Compy has good suggestions for this, addressing many of the shortcomings I have myself. I think it's important to note how new this is and the fact that two updates have come out already. I'd think that getting compatibility improved is priority #1 and after that, there may be some refining. I hope what I perceive as the initial popularity of this plugin encourages the developer to improve and further enhance it.

A few more things I'd like to see:

1. An option to change the color of 2nd and 3rd order harmonics in the THD plots. It would be helpful in determining what's going on if for example I could set the harmonics (based on input frequency) to blue and have anything else show up in red. Should make it easier to spot aliasing and intermodulation distortion.

2. Wouldn't mind a sine sweep test for aliasing too.

3. Using the same test signal for the Linear and Harmonic response tests. I find it an odd choice that the levels are different. Load up any compressor, go to the Harmonic Analysis section, set up some slight gain reduction. Go to the Linear test and...the amount of reduction taking place is entirely different due to the different signals. I'm not sure if there's a technical reason for not using the same signal in the Linear Analysis as the Harmonic Analysis, but I'd certainly like the option.

4. A plugin mode. Would be a nice convenience to just run this in my DAW.

5. An ASIO host mode for accessing IO for External Hardware. If this were a full fledged ASIO host, it would be possible to route test signals out to our hardware and back into the plugin. Maybe a Pro upgrade if development costs skyrocket?

6. I could care less about AAX personally, but it's probably the most requested feature after variable input frequencies and an external insert option.

Compyfox
KVRAF
14253 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany

Re: DDMF Plugindoctor

Post Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:10 am

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:Compyfox has good suggestions for this, addressing many of the shortcomings I have myself. ...
Let me quickly jump on some of the points:

1) colored "harmonics" would indeed be an interesting feature, but I'm sure this might not be possible

2) sine sweep button sounds like a good idea

4) Plugin mode would mean two tools: a) signal generator and b) analysis. This is already possible with 3rd parts tools, including Reaper 3.x's ReaJS

5) I agree on a hardware measurement option. Though I also already fear that we talk "pro features", and routing could be a pain with RME devices (looking at you, Room EQ Wizard). This is where Christian succeeded (or failed, so to speak). His "free" version was powerful enough already, so nobody bought the "pro" version. Then again, his promo wasn't the best either.



I think compatibility should be highest priority. But I already fear for developers to add yet another hack into the code just to run their plugin in this analysis tool. It needs to be known for plugin devs what this code is based upon, and how "clean"/compatible it is

Still a long way to go...
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MogwaiBoy
KVRAF
2774 posts since 26 Nov, 2015 from Way Downunder

Re: DDMF Plugindoctor

Post Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:04 pm

I haven't updated since release.

Can we see 0-20hz yet? :)

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