Maschine goes 64-bit only

[TheKid]

NI will soon drop the support for Maschine 1 hardware, too.

[kb420]

I don't really see this as a big deal at all. Why would someone be using a system that isn't 64 bit by now anyway? If you are still using a 32 bit system, then it's time to upgrade. In this case, upgrading is a GOOD thing. I can't imagine only having access to 4 gigs of ram. My current setup uses 32 gigs of ram, and when it's time to upgrade, I'm going with a 64 gig system. Everything seems to run smoother with more ram.

[zvenx]

NI will soon drop the support for Maschine 1 hardware, too.

Where did you hear this one from?
rsp

[foosnark]

I don't really see this as a big deal at all.

For the people who it affects, it is a big deal because SOME PLUGINS WILL NO LONGER WORK.

Why would someone be using a system that isn't 64 bit by now anyway? If you are still using a 32 bit system, then it's time to upgrade. In this case, upgrading is a GOOD thing. I can't imagine only having access to 4 gigs of ram. My current setup uses 32 gigs of ram, and when it's time to upgrade, I'm going with a 64 gig system. Everything seems to run smoother with more ram.

First off, I'm using a 64-bit OS and I have 16GB of RAM.

I've been running Maschine 32-bit because there are perfectly good plugins that have not, and probably never will be, ported to 64 bits and jBridge DID NOT WORK when I tried it.

In 64-bit Windows, the ONLY advantage that a 64-bit application has over a 32-bit application is the ability to address more than 4GB itself. What the rest of the system is doing with memory is irrelevant; it only affects the available RAM that can be used by the application and its loaded DLLs and data.

I checked a few of my typical song projects. They need less than 1GB at peak.

If you're using large sample libraries, you might get some performance benefit from your host being able to load more than 4GB. Even so, sample players are typically very good at using RAM as a cache to play from disk rather than loading the entire mess. If you have an SSD, unless you're Hans Zimmer I would guess the performance benefit from being able to address more than 4GB is negligable. But maybe I'm wrong about that because I don't use big sample libraries and I don't need more than 4GB.

[kb420]

I've been running Maschine 32-bit because there are perfectly good plugins that have not, and probably never will be, ported to 64 bits and jBridge DID NOT WORK when I tried it.

Ok. I can see your point. I hadn't considered that. Out of sheer curiosity, exactly what plugins are you referring to?

[sircuit]

I seriously doubt they spend several weeks in every release separately dealing with 32-bit issues. They're not going to update the software more regularly or quickly because of this. They're not going to add some new feature that 32-bit was preventing them from implementing.

They're just going to save some very minor expenses, and they get to dodge fixing this ONE bug.

32-bit support wasn't hurting any of you.

Excuse me for not celebrating. I have to waste my own time, and possibly money, because NI saved theirs.

macOS High Sierra is the latest OS to support 32-bit applications (and plug-ins). As a software vendor (NI in this case) try to explain to some of your customers that just purchased shiny new macbooks in 2019, that Maschine 32-bit only works on OLDER operating systems (it is impossible to downgrade the OS of a mac computer to an earlier than factory version).

I'm not saying the decision is exclusively based on what Apple plan for future OS updates but I have resons to believe that some correlation exists. Ableton did the same with Live 10, Cubase 8.5 is the last version that will have 32-bit. So nothing unusual with going 64-bit route.

And regarding old 32-bit plug-ins - I never encountered one impossible to replace after some research (and some others I simply discarded).

[chk071]

I don't really see this as a big deal at all.

For the people who it affects, it is a big deal because SOME PLUGINS WILL NO LONGER WORK.

The same argument could be applied to the absence of support for Windows XP and Windows Vista. Companies WILL know how many of their customers still use 32-bit, and act accordingly. Like NI did in this case.

[chk071]

BTW, doesn't Maschine run wrappers like jBridge, or 32Lives?

Edit: A quick Google search shows it does. Well, then i really have no idea what we_re discussing about here... use jBridge, or something similar, but don't complain about companies moving forward.

[swatwork]

Ableton did the same with Live 10, Cubase 8.5 is the last version that will have 32-bit. So nothing unusual with going 64-bit route.

I think the difference here is that Steinberg and Ableton ditched 32-bit at a major version release, gave plenty of warning and left 32-bit/64-bit users of those older versions at the same bug-fix level. Here, NI have abandoned 32-bit Maschine 'mid-stream' with little warning leaving current users who need 32-bit support to downgrade to an earlier version simply because they are unwilling to fix the bugs in the latest 32-bit release.

[zvenx]

If you dont' think SB fixed bugs from 8.5 to 9 and Ableton didn't fix bugs from 9 to 10....I have a bridge or two to sell you at a great price.
If you like using 32bit fine. Just freeze your system and work forever more on your 32 bit system, but to expect Developers to keep supporting your now archaic system is beyond logic.
rsp

[swatwork]

If you dont' think SB fixed bugs from 8.5 to 9 and Ableton didn't fix bugs from 9 to 10....I have a bridge or two to sell you at a great price.

I don't understand, of course they fixed bugs they were major releases. The point was that if you opted to stay on the previous versions you got the same level of support whether you chose 32-bit or 64-bit. The change to 64-bit-only came at a paid update release so you weren't losing anything you had already paid for.

If you like using 32bit fine. Just freeze your system and work forever more on your 32 bit system, but to expect Developers to keep supporting your now archaic system is beyond logic.
rsp

My setup is fully 64-bit, and I don't use NI software anymore. The only point I'm trying to make here is that I think it's unreasonable for NI to leave existing (paying) customers hanging like this.

[sircuit]

I think the difference here is that Steinberg and Ableton ditched 32-bit at a major version release, gave plenty of warning and left 32-bit/64-bit users of those older versions at the same bug-fix level. Here, NI have abandoned 32-bit Maschine 'mid-stream' with little warning

OK. There will never be a good moment to ditch 32-bit in case of Maschine as it is a relatively new software. Ableton Live is at version 10, Cubase at 8, Maschine is 2. Should they wait for 3? What if 3 will not be released in 2019 when the new 64-bit only macOS will be released?

The only difference in NI's case is that the upgrades are free and people complain immediately. In Ableton/Steinberg case the updates will be paid and the users will think twice before upgrading (aka paying for the update).

they are unwilling to fix the bugs in the latest 32-bit release.

Tracking bugs on two platforms is harder (because they depend on two sets of libraries) than tracking bugs on a single platform. For a 64-bit user, a less buggy 64 version is better than two versions (32&64) with more bugs.

[Guenon]

If you're using large sample libraries, you might get some performance benefit from your host being able to load more than 4GB. Even so, sample players are typically very good at using RAM as a cache to play from disk rather than loading the entire mess. If you have an SSD, unless you're Hans Zimmer I would guess the performance benefit from being able to address more than 4GB is negligable. But maybe I'm wrong about that because I don't use big sample libraries and I don't need more than 4GB.

Yeah, you're wrong . It's not a "performance benefit", it is literally impossible to use large sample libraries within a 4GB RAM limit. I repeat, being able to address more RAM makes it possible in the first place. It's not about that stuff running "better", it's about that stuff running at all. "Unless you're Hans Zimmer" is completely irrelevant and quite a banal debate device

[Guenon]

I checked a few of my typical song projects. They need less than 1GB at peak.

Then there is no benefit for your typical projects in the larger address space that a 64 bit environment provides.

[zvenx]

If you dont' think SB fixed bugs from 8.5 to 9 and Ableton didn't fix bugs from 9 to 10....I have a bridge or two to sell you at a great price.

I don't understand, of course they fixed bugs they were major releases. The point was that if you opted to stay on the previous versions you got the same level of support whether you chose 32-bit or 64-bit. The change to 64-bit-only came at a paid update release so you weren't losing anything you had already paid for.

If you like using 32bit fine. Just freeze your system and work forever more on your 32 bit system, but to expect Developers to keep supporting your now archaic system is beyond logic.
rsp

My setup is fully 64-bit, and I don't use NI software anymore. The only point I'm trying to make here is that I think it's unreasonable for NI to leave existing (paying) customers hanging like this.

Every newer version has bug fixes.... whether an update or upgrade, I am not following why you differentiated between fixes in an update vs upgrade. I know in SB and NI instances except for bugs that require major framework rewrites, there isn't that much difference in bug fixes.

Had NI called 2.7, 3.0 with the introduction of loop/audio module would that have made it ok to you?
You are drawing a line where I dont' think there is one.
rsp