Arrangement view in Ableton Live is a nightmare! Any tips?

[J-909]

Hi everyone,

Much as I try I can't get used to working with arrangement projects in Live. I have to anyway so I was wondering if I am missing something there.

How the hell do you manage samples so that they stick to wherever you want and to have the length you want? In Cubase this is so simple: you grab the edges to resize, you grab the center to move, you grab the center and alt (I think) to offset the internal content. And you can stretch selecting the stretch pointer. In the plain arrangement view you do everything such that it stays in the context of the song.

This thing in Live of having to go down to the sample editor to edit the sample length to then go back to where it is in arrangement view is making me go mad, absolutely unuseful!
It also applies to stretching sample content with pointers to pair with the song's flow.

What about the playhead? Where is it?. It drives me nuts that playing starts on selection instead of a fixed point I choose.

And how the hell do you orientate yourself in a crowded project? It's all so cluttered that unzooming (Shift+Z) doesn't help: you then have to select the track and manually expand vertically..

Am I missing something? Any tips towards worklfow?

BTW: Something similar happens to me with Bitwig but haven't faced it much yet

[Gymnopedies]

Honestly, there is no solution. Ableton has so many ways to create sound but utterly fails when it comes time to arrange all that into a song.
They have once again all but ignored the arrangement view...

[misterfister]

Considering how many workflow issues Ableton has I'm surprised the only ones you mentioned here are can be fixed by simply reading the manual. Anyways, first of all, click at that triangle on bottom left to see help hints. You resize the clips the same way: you drag the edge of the clip, not sure why you are having issues there. If you're talking about stretching audio in arrangement, that was introduced in 10, it is done by holding shift and dragging the edge. For offseting content, I believe it is Alt and drag. Also in Clip View you have Length values that you can quickly modify. You don't have to manually expand tracks. Click on that triangle next to the name to fold/unfold the track. To do it for all of them, hold Alt when click. Overall, just RTFM.

[J-909]

Honestly, there is no solution. Ableton has so many ways to create sound but utterly fails when it comes time to arrange all that into a song.
They have once again all but ignored the arrangement view...

Definitely looks like it! Even tho mouse scroll zooming has helped a bit, but no way to easily arrange sounds.

[J-909]

Considering how many workflow issues Ableton has I'm surprised the only ones you mentioned here are can be fixed by simply reading the manual. Anyways, first of all, click at that triangle on bottom left to see help hints. You resize the clips the same way: you drag the edge of the clip, not sure why you are having issues there. If you're talking about stretching audio in arrangement, that was introduced in 10, it is done by holding shift and dragging the edge. For offseting content, I believe it is Alt and drag. Also in Clip View you have Length values that you can quickly modify. You don't have to manually expand tracks. Click on that triangle next to the name to fold/unfold the track. To do it for all of them, hold Alt when click. Overall, just RTFM.

Dude thanx for the answer but of course I've read the manual (at least the parts implicated in this). I am not asking how it is done but rather how to do it efficiently. The only one you said I didn't know about is alt-drag, I think I've tried it but didn't work (will try again).

My issue is not how to click on the edge (for God sake..) but why when changing length I have to go down to sample view and change loop length...
My other issue is how to make the mouse behave like normal programs (instead of that line selection that places the palyhead anywhere you click) and be able to select with a rectangle or multi-select things individually without affecting play position... or any efficient alternative...
Also how to select various points of automation (just some particular ones) to increase their value, and a large etc.

BTW we're usually not baby newbies here I think.. but thanx anyway

[J-909]

Just as a way of looking at it:

How do you Live users cut samples like you were using the typical scissors and glue from other DAWs? I'm having trouble just with that. I want to cut a sample into two events or more to move one of them a little to stick it to the tempo and then join them together again. In Cubase that is alt-click, move event, and then glue them together. A matter of 5 seconds.

Consolidate kind of creates audio everytime (nonsense, my project gets full of crap).
,
And how do you enlarge a clip from editor view just say 1/16? I am doubling length and then shortening, like misterfister suggested.

[Michaelparkinson]

Just as a way of looking at it:

How do you Live users cut samples like you were using the typical scissors and glue from other DAWs? I'm having trouble just with that. I want to cut a sample into two events or more to move one of them a little to stick it to the tempo and then join them together again. In Cubase that is alt-click, move event, and then glue them together. A matter of 5 seconds.

.

Ctrl-e to cut. Hold and move the part. Highlight the two clips and consolidate.

[tooneba]

Playhead behavior is one of the thing Live give me frustration. You also need to make midi clip left edge longer to keep editing while auditioning from that point.

[J-909]

Playhead behavior is one of the thing Live give me frustration. You also need to make midi clip left edge longer to keep editing while auditioning from that point.

Exactly! That's another of the issues..

[J-909]

Just as a way of looking at it:

How do you Live users cut samples like you were using the typical scissors and glue from other DAWs? I'm having trouble just with that. I want to cut a sample into two events or more to move one of them a little to stick it to the tempo and then join them together again. In Cubase that is alt-click, move event, and then glue them together. A matter of 5 seconds.

.

Ctrl-e to cut. Hold and move the part. Highlight the two clips and consolidate.

Nice (Still missing simplicity when cutting many times a single sample tho)

[mcnelson]

Playhead behavior is one of the thing Live give me frustration. You also need to make midi clip left edge longer to keep editing while auditioning from that point.

Exactly! That's another of the issues..

Isn't this midi-chase, introduced in Live 10?

[jonljacobi]

I think most of what you're complaining about is just a matter of slowing down and learning the way Live does things. It is quite different form Cubase. It all makes sense in the end.

That said, the arranger is a visually confusing, hot mess. And to me, the groups within groups just made it more so. Note that you never see demos with more than a few tracks visible. There's a reason for that.

[kb420]

I've been an Ableton Live user since version 4 or 5. My first experience with Cubase was with Cubase 8.5. That being said, I've NEVER been a fan of Live's Arrangement View. I've always thought that was the part of the program that seemed the most neglected, and the very short time that I've been using Cubase makes Live's Arrangement View seem just that much more cumbersome. I will admit that Live 10's subtle improvements in the Arrangement make the experience a little more bearable, but for me personally, Cubase is just a lot more fluid and effortless. As a matter of fact, I actually felt like Live's Arrangement was completely unusable when I started working with it again with Live 10's beta. I couldn't believe how hard it was to get used to again, but once you get used to it, it isn't that bad.

Still, Cubase is much better than Live's Arrangement View. It's not even close.

[Mister Natural]

I can't compare to CBase, never having used it but I can recco three tips to improving your dexterity in Arrange view(if you are stuck only using one DAW) : practice - practice - practice

best

[freshalex]

Still, Cubase is much better than Live's Arrangement View. It's not even close.

Same with Logic! Arranging is so much faster there.

Live is great for composing! But I still miss a good midi editor in L10!