Any reverse switchers here?

[soulkraka]

just curious because, much to the chagrin of my mac usin' buddies, I (semi)recently switched over to PC without any major problems to speak of.

Thats right, I still can :

1. turn on my comp
2. open up Live or reason (or both now!)
3. make music
4. maybe browse the net a bit.

BUT NOW I can use more efx and vsti's than I ever have before!! alrighty then!

Has it been smooth sailing for other switchers?

and BTW this is not an invitation for a mac/pc debate. Lets hear from reverse switchers.

[Yossarian]

I wouldn’t say I’m a switcher but I recently added a PC to my setup. The plan is to do the sequencing (and most of the sample-based stuff) on the Mac and use the PC for softsynths. Still waiting for max to finish the OS X version of FXTeleport, looks like the perfect solution to what I want to do. In the meantime I’ve bought the Emulator X softsampler/audio card for the PC so I can make a regular midi/audio hook-up (it even came with an OEM version of Cubasis so the host part is taken care of).

Pretty happy so far. I still feel more comfortable with OS X but Win XP isn’t too bad – no real hitches yet (knock on wood ). It feels nice to have access to all those Windows-only plugins (not that I felt restricted with the options available for the Mac). It’s just a new world of VSTi:s to ruin myself on (I’ve signed up for both the z3ta+ and WusikStation group buys).

You won’t see me involved in any platform flame wars – it’s all very ecumenical in my home studio nowadays.

/Yoss

[Zoing]

So if you had to start again with one computer yossarian, what would you choose?

I am a Mac user, I can't really see myself changing, not least because I use Logic, but I'm frustrated at how far behind Macs are in price/performance. Audio seems to be one of the areas this is most noticable. I am still using my 400mhz g3 iMac, was thinking of upgrading to the new g5 iMac, but it is probably less powerful compared to the current PCs than my old one was to it's competition 5 years ago.

What makes it worse is that most software is not optimized nearly as well for Mac as it is for PC, so they get another advantage there.

I'd like a laptop too, and the Mac laptops seem so much slower than the centrino things. Alright, I'm envious!!!!

But I like Macs, I like Steve Jobs, I don't like Bill Gates and from my limited experience with Windows XP it always seems to have stuff on screen yelling at you (visually)... 'do you want to do this? do you want to do that? do you want to buy this, go here, stick this thing up your arse????

I don't know if you know what I mean. And what's with all those ugly stckers all over PC laptops?. Most of which look like they were modelled on 30 year old cars, except the Vaios and maybe some others.

But I do envy the power (not in the market for a dual g5 unfortunately). Maybe in a few years Macs might be back to being equal or in front, like I believe they were when the G3 came out. Just when apple gets rid of Motorola's pathetic development pace, IBM looks to be going in the same direction. Its enough to make a Mac fan cry

[Yossarian]

So if you had to start again with one computer yossarian, what would you choose?

That’s a toughie, I find it hard to step back and be completely unbiased after so many years using Macs. Just going by price/performance, a PC seems to be the obvious choice but there are other considerations like the OS and hardware configuration/compatibility matters.

There are actually some Mac-only developers too. Pluggo is still Mac-only (I think?), Bitshift’s new stuff is Mac-only and I’ve seen a couple of new developers like www.drumcore.com and www.tritonedigital.com that are bringing out some interesting-looking Mac-only stuff.

All in all, I feel I’ve found a good compromise (how Swedish is that? ) that will let me stay in my familiar Mac environment and still have access to inexpensive processing power and Windows-only plugs.

But I like Macs, I like Steve Jobs, I don't like Bill Gates and from my limited experience with Windows XP it always seems to have stuff on screen yelling at you (visually)... 'do you want to do this? do you want to do that? do you want to buy this, go here, stick this thing up your arse????

I don't know if you know what I mean.

I do and I find it annoying, too. I've already been using Windoze boxes at work for quite a while, though so I guess I'm getting used to it.

/Yoss

[fleetmouse]

I don't understand why Apple insists on sticking with their line of processors. Why not put in Centrino based CPUs and compete with PCs properly? Hell they could make two lines of computers, one with the old style CPUs to run legacy apps. Or put two CPUs in one box to run both old and new apps until the developers recompile for the new systems.

They could still do all the engineering magic that makes Macs so dreamy but not be the PC's weak sister any more.

[Sascha Franck]

I don't understand why Apple insists on sticking with their line of processors. Why not put in Centrino based CPUs and compete with PCs properly?

Not sure if this is really necessary.
The latest Apple CPUs sure perform nicely.
Their computers are just a *bit* pricey, to say the least.
And oh yes, audio performance under LogicPro is piss poor in comparison to any other halfway modern machine, but it's Emagic having to adress this issue as it doesn't look that bad when using other hosts.

I think, if I had to start with computers again, would be using an x-platform host and if money was no issue, I'd go for some more or less customized PC.
But as I'm a Logic user I will soon be using a Mac as my main music machine.

[egbert]

I don't understand why Apple insists on sticking with their line of processors. Why not put in Centrino based CPUs and compete with PCs properly? Hell they could make two lines of computers, one with the old style CPUs to run legacy apps. Or put two CPUs in one box to run both old and new apps until the developers recompile for the new systems.

They could still do all the engineering magic that makes Macs so dreamy but not be the PC's weak sister any more.

One basic fact - Jobs has the horn for hardware. He loves cool looking design and in his Next days even put all kinds of effort to have a really well designed factory to make the Next boxes - he just hadn't figured out who was going to buy them yet. He never did actually so Next tanked as a hardware company and became a software company before it sold out to Apple.

This love of hardware has a lot to do with why Apple was reluctant to go the OS + Apps route that made MS the power it is today - they persisted with the proprietary hardware model from 30 % market share all the way down to 3% and still do.

The reason they don't build x86 powered boxes to run their OS on is that they would probably get killed in that low margin/commodity hardware game. Look at the way Dell has carved up all their US competitors.

Apple are able to get away with the price/performance gap because they have a legion of committed customers. As long as they are prepared to pay more they will be charged more. $199 Tiger upgrade anyone?

I don't see Apple going away anytime soon though - their following has a lot invested in them and their brand, like Sony's, is very strong. And, due to their sharp business practices, they are in a very strong financial position.

If computing power were ever to become "enough" (fat chance you might say) then design would be one of decisive influences on sales. Currently people - especially DAW users like us - buy a new computer primarily to get more processing power - why else do we need to upgrade? (Be quiet all you fashion victims) If power plateaued/became sufficient for all practical applications then other considerations would dominate.

That is the sort of market where Apple and Sony (and perhaps the big Korean companies) might be the big players. Of course there are other big considerations - software availability, pricing and support.

As for me - I'm a longtime Logic user but I can't see myself buying an OSX/G5 machine anytime soon for all the reasons mentioned in this thread.

Eg

[fleetmouse]

The reason they don't build x86 powered boxes to run their OS on is that they would probably get killed in that low margin/commodity hardware game. Look at the way Dell has carved up all their US competitors.

But the CPU is just one component in a computer. They use commodity video, hard drives, etc - why not a commodity CPU? What makes Macs special is the system architecture like the bus, the way the OS integrates, the clever way it actually offloads graphics processing onto the GPU efficiently, the overall design and build quality...

I think if they stick with their line of CPUs they'll always be a step or two behind Intel systems in terms of raw processing ability.

I'd love to get a Mac powerbook - I love the look and feel of them - but I'm probably going to get a Centrino based laptop because I can't justify twice the price for half the power. If they had all that horse under the hood it would be worth it for that cool Macky Mackiness.

[egbert]

The reason they don't build x86 powered boxes to run their OS on is that they would probably get killed in that low margin/commodity hardware game. Look at the way Dell has carved up all their US competitors.

But the CPU is just one component in a computer. They use commodity video, hard drives, etc - why not a commodity CPU? What makes Macs special is the system architecture like the bus, the way the OS integrates, the clever way it actually offloads graphics processing onto the GPU efficiently, the overall design and build quality...

True about the CPU being one of the few non-commodity components. Macs (eg Powerbooks) are fabricated by Taiwanese firms like Compal out of commodity bits - ie by the same manufacturers who make machines for x86.

Shifting hardware to x86 would involve serious rewriting of the platform specific code (Altivec for example) in applications and OS. The development cost might be too much to bear for Mac developers who have only a small market to suppot them and they have just spent a lot to build apps for OSX on PowerPC.

As for the Bus - the bus in the G4 was very out of date and slow - the G5 addressed this but its system uses AMD's Hypertransport as well as IBMs technology. Graphics - Mac users are always complaining about sluggish graphics in Logic on OSX and yet the GPUs speced used in PCs are are fast - why do you think Macs do this better than PCs - if they do, I have no problem I just haven't seen any claims of this before.

I think it is funny that the G5s are so weighed down by all the eye candy in OSX - this is the sort of bloatware thing MS has been castigated for since God was a boy. For DAW applications there are a few dark clouds hanging over the platform: there are clearly some serious bugs with Firewire audio interfaces and audio throughput is somehow crippled on ought to be a very fast machine esp in the case of the DP G5s.

I think if they stick with their line of CPUs they'll always be a step or two behind Intel systems in terms of raw processing ability.

Yes it is hard to beat all that x86 development money and, as they say, competition improves the breed - AMD and Transmeta's innovations force Intel to lift their game for example - think Pentium Ms and the x86 64 and NX bit.

I'd love to get a Mac powerbook - I love the look and feel of them - but I'm probably going to get a Centrino based laptop because I can't justify twice the price for half the power. If they had all that horse under the hood it would be worth it for that cool Macky Mackiness.

Yes - this is where Apple are really behind the 8-ball. The G5 desktop processor is respectable but the development budget to shoehorn them into a Laptop in a timely fashion is not apparently there. My guess is that they could do it in a machine the size and weight of a P4 "desktop replacement" laptop anytime - just not in the thin and light form factor that would warrant the Apple logo on the top.

[Robert Randolph]

I hate my mac.

That's all I have to say, I completely hate it.

[Zoing]

I hate my mac.

That's all I have to say, I completely hate it.

Well, i'd be interested to hear you say some more!

Were you PC user who switched to mac and didn't like it, or always a mac user and don't like it? it would be interesting to know...

And Fleetmouse (ps I love your 'planets everywhere' song, so does my son, I odwnloaded it and stuck it on his iPod), it's a well-known secret that Apple have OSX running on intel hardware (a project known as "marklar"), and have for a few years as a last ditch back-up, firstly against the glacial pace of development by Motorola. It looked like IBM would be their saviour, and maybe still will be, but I guess they are keeping that as an option seeing things are going slow there too.

I believe the issue is that software developers would have to rewrite a heap of stuff, which a lot of theme have just done for OSX, as egbert wrote.

[egbert]

I hate my mac.

That's all I have to say, I completely hate it.

Robert, that is sad.

Just don't put your Mac away in the closet with Cubase SX - never to be used again - send it to me!

I promise I'll make every effort to bond with it.

Eg

[TechnoWeeniePas]

I am a flip flopper. I started with many pre-pc computers...moved to the pc...moved to mac...moved back to pc...will probably stay here forever unless Macs go significantly down in price and I can upgrade them buy just buying a mobo and proc like I can my PC

[machinesworking]

I guess I think of it in terms of what you expect from a machine. I would buy a PC, but I'm rapidly moving towards the smallest setup I can, and I'm not about to give up Logic, Pluggo, or any of the odd little AUs that have come out for mac, same reason I would expect to hear from a PC person if macs started crushing PC performance wise.
Power, yeah it's cool, a friend of mine who felt he owed me for things waaaaay in the past handed me a dual gig G4, and honestly it's nice not having to freeze tracks, but realistically it doesn't make me write better music to have twice the juice of my powerbook.
At this point I feel I have enough power, I'm looking more towards learning the tools I have to their fullest, and getting the most out of them.

Apple will never use x86 chips, the things are designed for windows, nobody who wants to survive in the computer world goes toe to toe with Microsoft, especially when they already have the advantage of x86 market share. Think of it this way, Microsoft already demand things of Intel and AMD, how could those companies survive if Microsoft abandoned them? Basically AMD/Intel have NO incentive to make chips for Apple, it would be like taking a gun and blowing your own head off.
This gets bandied about on the web often, and yeah I like the idea, but business is war, and Microsoft are the GWB America equivalent.

[soulkraka]

I'm looking more towards learning the tools I have to their fullest, and getting the most out of them.

Amen

whats up machines! It's futureproof from the Ableton forum.