Is it worth it to get a bunch of hardware? (coming from software only)

[dellboy]

How about Halion? A sampler plus synthesiser extraordinaire?

Halion ?

I have had more fun with an Akai S2000 and a bunch of floppies than I had with that thing after wasting so much bandwidth downloading it.

I have lived through the hardware sampler era and I know for a fact that using such devices is no fun at all (when compared to computer-based samplers). But that is not the point, maybe you are a masochist and it is indeed fun for you
But! We are trying to dissect your assertion that "hardware is better than software" so, I want to see your Akai S2000 do a beautiful synthesised granular layer mixed with a lush synthesised virtual analogue layer (maybe add some lovely PWM modulation here) mixed with some world instruments that have long tails, no sample length truncation allowed.
Can you do it in your S2000? Or if you can not, can we settle on a fact that hardware is not necessarily better than software?

You really should read the preceding posts better.

I am totally software. Apart from a Novation SL, an 88 key piano weighted keyboard and a usb interface.

[himalaya]

Read which post?
This one?

Hardware is better than software.

Ok, I tease, since you did write that you are almost all software....but then proceeded to make a very dubious case for the above quoted statement. Which is it then? (I don't care regardless, I'm just killing some time here while making some very expressive sounds that can be played on a normal midi controller ).

And you say that you have the Novation SL...so you are in a very fortunate place to play your software synths in a very expressive manner? Why haven't you yet?

[whyterabbyt]

So you simply would say that Nexus is better than any Rack Sound Unit for which there isn't an software emulation yet because it's both computers but nexus is cool?

No, that isnt representative of anything I'd say either. Please stop trying to suggest what I'd say, you're lamentably poor at it, and it smacks of someone who's grasping at rather fragile straws in lieu of a cogent and consistent argument backed up by actual facts.

[VariKusBrainZ]

You don't buy the VST , you get the AU when you buy yourself a Mac and Mainstage. Simples.

Goodness, I thought the dinosaurs died out years ago.

You thought right! But this isn't the place for any fans of dinosaurs. Are you looking for a Dino Fan forum?

once you get yourself a Mac and a copy of Mainstage, you will be able to experience one of the most advanced synths in the world, Alchemy 2, and realise that there is absolutely nothing in hardware that does what Alchemy 2 does, or comes even close to it! Does this clarify it for you some more? Or do I need to post some excerpts from Jurassic Park for you to assuage your need for dino action?

Pretty sure Kyma comes close, even the old KymaX OS which I have

[himalaya]

Good point! Kyma is the only one that comes close ( I also have it at my disposal, just don't have the time to use it, hence I always forget about it!).

[sjm]

So would you prefer a virtual guitar emulation of a Gibson or Martin guitar rather than a real one that can be looked at and touched and played ?

I would vastly prefer the real thing. But would DJ Tarnce who has never played an instrument, let alone a guitar, prefer it?

DJ Tarnce (whoever he is) should at least try to learn to play a musical instrument.

How does he input stuff into his sequencer ? ready made loops ? step sequencer ?

I'd say the piano roll; if I've ever had to program guitar, that's where I did it.

I guess you missed the whole tarnce thing then?

[dellboy]

Read which post?
This one?

Hardware is better than software.

Ok, I tease, since you did write that you are almost all software....but then proceeded to make a very dubious case for the above quoted statement. Which is it then? (I don't care regardless, I'm just killing some time here while making some very expressive sounds that can be played on a normal midi controller ).

And you say that you have the Novation SL...so you are in a very fortunate place to play your software synths in a very expressive manner? Why haven't you yet?

I stand by my statement that hardware is better than software.

I prefer a real violin to a software version. If I want a violin solo I will practise until I get it right and then hit record. The expressive ability of a software violin is nowhere yet equal to a real world one. For fast attacks a computer is no match to a good quality well setup violin. The same goes for guitar,I always use a real one. I am happy with a virtual piano as they take up so much physical space. But if I could own a Yamaha CS80 I would,as no software is ever going to touch it. Same goes for most true analog stuff.

And lets not go near a real Hammond B3 with Leslie.

[whyterabbyt]

I don't even understand what you're trying to adress by "to your ears the hardware version will always sound much better", like, wtf Better harmonic spectrum is really nothing you could call subjective.

Please provide the universally accepted scientific definition for 'better' when talking about 'harmonic spectrum', as well as the typical metrics for determining this objectively measurable 'betterness.'

[himalaya]

But there is no way that any real sort of meaningful expression can be coaxed out of a keybed. At best it is touch sensitive and has aftertouch,but its expressive capabilitities are very limited. There are various new fangled devices to try to make input a better experence,but at best they are bodges.

Previously, I posted an example played on one of those "new fangled devices", but here is an example made on a standard midi keyboard. All I'm using is velocity, aftertouch, mod stick, pitch stick and a CC fader. Pretty much what all midi controllers provide. The sound to me is very expressive (although it's experimental and avant-garde on purpose - it was made for another occasion some time ago - and may not be to your liking). It's all played live.

Use this as an example of: the "keybed" mechanism is not the end of the expression potential when used with software instruments (or indeed hardware).

https://soundcloud.com/electric-himalay ... i-keyboard

[Rameses]

I don't even understand what you're trying to adress by "to your ears the hardware version will always sound much better", like, wtf Better harmonic spectrum is really nothing you could call subjective.

Please provide the universally accepted scientific definition for 'better' when talking about 'harmonic spectrum', as well as the typical metrics for determining this objectively measurable 'betterness.'

Listen, kiddo. A harmonic spectrum of an audio signal is better if it's wider, if it has a higher fidelity and is more "complete". Don't try to present fully self-evident matters as rocket science or something vague or unexplainable or far from reality. You can't say that the quality of the taste of feces is subjective, just because they are surely people who enjoy it more than steak or fruit.

[mike_the_ranger]

A harmonic spectrum of an audio signal is better if it's wider, if it has a higher fidelity and is more "complete".

no. Please stop trolling.

[himalaya]

Read which post?
This one?

Hardware is better than software.

Ok, I tease, since you did write that you are almost all software....but then proceeded to make a very dubious case for the above quoted statement. Which is it then? (I don't care regardless, I'm just killing some time here while making some very expressive sounds that can be played on a normal midi controller ).

And you say that you have the Novation SL...so you are in a very fortunate place to play your software synths in a very expressive manner? Why haven't you yet?

I stand by my statement that hardware is better than software.

I prefer a real violin to a software version. If I want a violin solo I will practise until I get it right and then hit record. The expressive ability of a software violin is nowhere yet equal to a real world one. For fast attacks a computer is no match to a good quality well setup violin. The same goes for guitar,I always use a real one. I am happy with a virtual piano as they take up so much physical space. But if I could own a Yamaha CS80 I would,as no software is ever going to touch it. Same goes for most true analog stuff.

And lets not go near a real Hammond B3 with Leslie.

You are really confusing several aspects here. When we talk about 'hardware vs software' we mean synths, correct? So why do you talk about a 'real violin vs software violin' ? This is a totally different topic, I hope you come to realise it. Here, you are talking about 'acoustic instruments vs their software emulations', which has nothing to do with 'hardware vs software'.

I'm still waiting for your much better Akai S2000 to make me my Halion patch that consists of granular synthesis, virtual analogue synthesis and deep sampled patches, all in one program. It is better after all?

Or make it more simple, do you have a hardware synth at your disposal that can resynthesise, and do it well? Image-Line's Harmor has been asking.... (you know what it is, right?)

[whyterabbyt]

Listen, kiddo.

Says the 24-year old. I think Ive got T-shirts older than you. Go on, little baby, this oughta be good....

A harmonic spectrum of an audio signal is better if it's wider, if it has a higher fidelity and is more "complete".

So no scientific definition, not even a fully resolved one. 'More complete', eh, what a larf.

FWIW, you pretty much just claimed white noise is the best sound.

Don't try to present fully self-evident matters as rocket science or something vague or unexplainable or far from reality.

Not sure why I'd want to do that, in a situation where it applied. Here, though, it doesnt. After all, Im actually expecting your claim to be explainable, because, in fact, I asked you for a nice solid expanation.

Its not my fault you've decided to just claim that its self-evident, then attempted to vaguely handwave away any notion of support for it. If its as self-evident as you say, it'll be pretty easy for you to make it explicitly evident and prove your case, wont it?

Hmmm, I wonder why you didnt just do that.

You can't say that the quality of the taste of feces is subjective, just because they are surely people who enjoy it more than steak or fruit.

Given the inherent logical contradiction in that statement, I think the evidence is mounting up that you dont actually know what the word 'subjective' means.

[dellboy]

You are really confusing several aspects here. When we talk about 'hardware vs software' we mean synths, correct?

Lets say I own a very early 1966 Moog.

That "real world" hardware synth could be laid direct to analogue tape. Yes ?

This was before the word "digital" was hardly yet known.

I lack the general competency to understand whether it had any digital chips in it at that stage. But even, so it could,conceivably be made very,very, large using valves. The waveforms it produced back then could have been amplified through a valve amplifier with nothing "digital" in sight.

Hence I view it as a real world "hardware" synth that is utilizing the properties of electricity,in the analogue domain,much like I view an electric guitar ot Hammond B3.

[dellboy]

I'm still waiting for your much better Akai S2000 to make me my Halion patch that consists of granular synthesis, virtual analogue synthesis and deep sampled patches, all in one program. It is better after all?

Again, you need to re-read my post. I believe I said I had more "fun" with an Akai S2000. Not that it is "better".

Nothing will ever take away the thrill of switching it on the first time,seeing the blue screen,and loading in the floppies. Heck,even my 12 bit sampler addon for the Amiga was more fun than playing with Halion.