Women producers!! Where are you!

Anything about MUSIC but doesn't fit into the forums above.
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thecontrolcentre
KVRAF
23213 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny

Post Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:32 pm

Kelly Lee Owens
Lorde
First Aid Kit
Colleen
Paper Dollhouse

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Hink
Rad Grandad
27503 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine

Re: Women producers!! Where are you!

Post Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:02 pm

thecontrolcentre wrote:Kelly Lee Owens
Lorde
First Aid Kit
Colleen
Paper Dollhouse
:clap:

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ariston
KVRAF
3386 posts since 28 Jun, 2009 from Wherever I lay my hat

Re: Women producers!! Where are you!

Post Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:56 pm

jancivil wrote:I'm finding it hilarious that we have a misogynist male here whose user name always made me think of teh vagina. And I'm sure I'm not alone. :D
Actually, it never crossed my mind... but now I find it hard to unthink it!!! :dog:

Regarding the 'nature' argument... to quote a German humorist/singer:
"We're monkeys already... maybe we should strive to be humans?"

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S0lo
KVRian
636 posts since 31 Dec, 2008

Re: Women producers!! Where are you!

Post Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:48 am

Please read the article to the end. You might miss judge if you don't.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/th ... ntelligent

I'll add to this that a mere IQ test does not necessarily reflect musical abilities. But I think it can be a weak contributing factor.

woggle
KVRAF
2179 posts since 24 Nov, 2012

Re: Women producers!! Where are you!

Post Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:13 am

S0lo wrote:Please read the article to the end. You might miss judge if you don't.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/th ... ntelligent

I'll add to this that a mere IQ test does not necessarily reflect musical abilities. But I think it can be a weak contributing factor.
I could be wrong but that article reads to me like junk science. Because of the way the USA rewards people I tend not to take any notice of anything from there without a really good reason - for example George Lakoff is a first rate US intellectual. Chomsky is a first rate intellectual, Sandra Trehaub is a first rate intellectual etc etc. But once you get in to the popular science realm money pollutes everything and the shit really flies.

honestly, from my point of view, the APA has done more damage to psychology than the Catholic Church

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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
26308 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Re: Women producers!! Where are you!

Post Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:17 am

fluffy_little_something wrote:There is overlap of course (I suppose my brain would also be somewhere in the middle, I am fully aware of my strong female traits). In such cases researchers would be hard-pressed to tell the sex (although hard-pressed doesn't mean impossible).
Still, with most brains experts can indeed tell whether a scanned brain is male or female.
And yet the article specifically states the opposite.

Still, you're the self-avowed expert on 'brain experts' so we'll just accept what you say despite authoritive evidence to the contrary.
Last edited by whyterabbyt on Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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S0lo
KVRian
636 posts since 31 Dec, 2008

Re: Women producers!! Where are you!

Post Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:20 am

woggle wrote:
S0lo wrote:Please read the article to the end. You might miss judge if you don't.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/th ... ntelligent

I'll add to this that a mere IQ test does not necessarily reflect musical abilities. But I think it can be a weak contributing factor.
I could be wrong but that article reads to me like junk science. Because of the way the USA rewards people I tend not to take any notice of anything from there without a really good reason
The article is referring to the NCDS which is in the United Kingdom.

woggle
KVRAF
2179 posts since 24 Nov, 2012

Re: Women producers!! Where are you!

Post Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:24 am

S0lo wrote:
woggle wrote:
S0lo wrote:Please read the article to the end. You might miss judge if you don't.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/th ... ntelligent

I'll add to this that a mere IQ test does not necessarily reflect musical abilities. But I think it can be a weak contributing factor.
I could be wrong but that article reads to me like junk science. Because of the way the USA rewards people I tend not to take any notice of anything from there without a really good reason
The article is referring to the NCDS which is in the United Kingdom.
sigh - Psychology Today is a US magazine, Satoshi Kanazawa is from the US

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/gu ... -kanazawa/

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fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
12705 posts since 5 Jun, 2012 from Portugal

Re: Women producers!! Where are you!

Post Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:58 am

jancivil wrote:
deastman wrote:Huh? What about that article that Fluffy linked to:

"The gray-white matter difference may explain why, in adulthood, females are great multi-taskers, while men excel in highly task-focused projects."

Sounds to me that he’s asserting exactly that: that men have superior ability in highly task-focused projects.

Edit:
Or to put it in less kindly terms, which that author is actually insinuating with his pseudo-science, “women are too scatterbrained to concentrate on a single task”. But it all sounds very official and factual and sciency the way he worded it.
Yeah. We're looking at two very intellectually-dishonest individuals at least as regards this whole area which screams to me they're threatened by something. And it's the Dunning-Kruger Effect very nicely illustrated.
Sounds more like it is your idealistic view of the world that is threatened :wink: Given all the obvious physiological differences between the sexes it is almost naive to assume they are mentally identical.

I can't speak for others, but I have no problem at all with whatever researchers discover. To me the world is not a competition, it doesn't matter to me whether they find out women or men are more intelligent, capable, focused or whatever. It is irrelevant because things are the way they are and any differences that are based on genes are here to stay, whether we like it or not. Differences can compliment and compensate each other, so there is nothing bad about differences.

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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
26308 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Re: Women producers!! Where are you!

Post Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:11 am

fluffy_little_something wrote: It is irrelevant because things are the way they are and any differences that are based on genes are here to stay, whether we like it or not.
They probably are. The difference that we've been talking about, though (the ones you want to pass off as 'based on genes' and 'brain scans' and other mangled science) are likely not here to stay, since they're social and cultural.
And its clear from your comments that you dont like that. So much so, that you'll even resist the notion of what they actually are in the first place.
"The bearer of this signature is a genuine and authorised pope."

samsam
KVRAF
1948 posts since 9 Dec, 2008

Re: Women producers!! Where are you!

Post Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:14 am

Never met many female producers back when I was more active but knew loads of female djs so obviously they had an interest in the scene.

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
6188 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: Women producers!! Where are you!

Post Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:25 am

justin3am wrote:Not only do women deserve more respect/recognition, they deserve some help from those who have benefited from the unfair advantages of working in boys-club environments. That includes me. The tough part is convincing those who take those advantages for granted, that the point isn't to favor one gender over another, it's about parity. It's about equality. It's about leveling the playing field. So many of us have become comfortable with the status-quo that we feel something is being taken from us, when presented with the idea that some sacrifices need to be made, for the sake of equality.

That's not to say that women can't succeed without the help of men but they can't succeed if men won't give them equal time and recognition of their talents. So many times I watched women passed over for work/promotions, even when their skills surpassed mine. That hasn't happened at my current job... but at my previous job and as a freelance worker. I have spoken out about discrimination that I saw, sometimes to my own detriment. I can't in good conscience continue to move up if my female colleagues are not extended the same opportunities.

I wanna boost my good friend Deb (Debra1rlo, for those who remember). Long time KVR member and multi-instrumentalist for the Gitane Demone Quartet. She just started a new job at an LA studio and she worked damn hard to get where she is.

I'd encourage everyone to promote the work of women you know, today. Strike that... everday or at least some days. A friend, a family member- no matter what they do- take a moment to publicly show that you appreciate their work and their existence.
Although I can appreciate the sentiment (I mean who wouldn't really), I can't say that I really agree with the premise of much of this. It's just not my experience. Anywhere that there's been a woman musician, especially in electronic music, she has had as much or more recognition as a male counterpart. Perhaps because it's more rare, I don't know. But the point is that I don't see there being any barrier to entry for woman, simply a matter of interest. There are more guys into playing with music toys. So what. Who are these terrible people that don't want to appreciate an electronic musician (or musician in general) because she's a woman? Sorry, I just have never come across this. I'm not saying you haven't had a different experience, perhaps you have. But I don' think it's normal in my culture (North American), though there are of course many parts of the world where females would be discouraged or outright banned by their family and community from developing musical skills, which of course is sad and wrong. But in our society, females are very much encouraged to get into areas that have been predominantly men, by women and men both! And this often comes not just in social praise/recognition but also sometimes in the form of grants/bursaries aimed specifically at women. Not meaning to put down your general intention, which is honorable, but it's kind of a stance that nobody would disagree with isn't it? Maybe I've just been lucky to be in jobs where it really doesn't seem to matter, but when it comes to women being passed over in favor of less skilled men, this is just suicide for a company and completely irrational behavior for management. A free market takes care of this thing pretty fast because now who don't discriminate based on gender get a huge upper hand. Unless of course there is a wider executive conspiracy to keep women out of the workplace, which no, there is not. So again, I'm not sure it's really that big of a problem these days. While it obviously used to be different even a few decades back, it's gotten much better, both in terms of music and jobs in general. I just think that at a certain point, progress should be recognized and a glass that is half full or more should no longer be seen as containing just a few drops.
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit. Once I have something clever, I will certainly fill it in.

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fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
12705 posts since 5 Jun, 2012 from Portugal

Re: Women producers!! Where are you!

Post Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:30 am

whyterabbyt wrote:
fluffy_little_something wrote: It is irrelevant because things are the way they are and any differences that are based on genes are here to stay, whether we like it or not.
They probably are. The difference that we've been talking about, though (the ones you want to pass off as 'based on genes' and 'brain scans' and other mangled science) are likely not here to stay, since they're social and cultural.
And its clear from your comments that you dont like that. So much so, that you'll even resist the notion of what they actually are in the first place.
That's your opinion that you are entitled to, of course. But I don't agree...

I don't care neither about the status quo, nor about changes as they won't affect me. I have made my personal observations for half a century and they haven't really changed much. There is a certain potential for change, but only within what genes allow. Men will continue to be men and women will continue to be women, with all the physiological, mental, emotional and other differences. And that's a good thing as it enables attraction between the sexes.

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skipscada
KVRian
1418 posts since 22 Oct, 2004 from Schmocation

Re: Women producers!! Where are you!

Post Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:05 am

Some comments here remind me of the aperçu "I don't know much about science, but I know what I like."

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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
26308 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Re: Women producers!! Where are you!

Post Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:28 am

fluffy_little_something wrote:I don't care neither about the status quo, nor about changes as they won't affect me. I have made my personal observations for half a century and they haven't really changed much.
Yes, they certainly smack of being from 50 years ago.
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