MIDI Learn Driving Me Crazy

[dreadnought]

I'm getting sick of trying to make this work and I can't seem to figure out what I'm doing wrong. It seems like it should be simple.

Basically, I want to use a guitar plugin and follow it with a wah effect plugin and control the wah pedal in the plugin with an actual foot controller. I've tried this now in Reaper and Bitwig and can't get it to work with the particular guitar libraries I want to use. I want to use either the Evolution Dracus from Orange Tree (it runs in Kontakt 5) or Heavier 7 Strings. I'm trying these with either the Hornet or Kuassa wah effects. Both wah plugins have built-in MIDI learn functions, and I can instantiate them and get my foot pedal mapped without issue. However, as soon as I load either Kontakt or Heavier 7 Strings in front of them, the MIDI control stops working. If I simply bypass the guitar plugs then the MIDI control on the wah works again. Turn the guitar plugin back on, no MIDI control on the effect. The crazy thing is that if I load a synth plugin in front of the wah (I tried Zebra and some of the Arturia plugs), the MIDI works fine. Something about those two guitar plugs kills the MIDI learn for anything that follows them in the chain. Does anyone know why this is, or if there's some way around this?

I tried this at a friend's house because he runs Ableton 9, and while we couldn't get the MIDI learn function built into the wah plugins to work, we got it working using the MIDI learn built into the DAW. Here's a bonus point question for anyone familiar with Live: It looks to me like Live will only scan a single VST folder in the setup options. I have my plugins in two different folders, though, for 32 and 64 bit. Can the DAW really only use the contents of one or the other folder? In Reaper and Bitwig, of course, you can have them scan as many folders as you like.

I hope these aren't dumb questions, but I seriously spent hours trying to get this to work with no luck. I've had a bad cold for a few days, though, and am on some serious decongestant, so it's possible my brain isn't functioning at full capacity.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Dan

[thecontrolcentre]

If you're running the 64bit version of Live, it can only use 64bit plugins. Same thing for the 32bit version (32 bit plugins only). Reaper has a built-in VST bridge, so can read both types.

So far as the midi learn issue goes... have you tried mapping the pedal control after instantiating either library, rather than mapping before adding the library?

[DarkStar]

The built-in MIDI Learn functions depends on the receiving the relevant MIDI CC messages. By default, plug-ins in Reaper replace any MIDI input received by any MIDI that they are outputting. So it seems likely that Kontakt is not passing on the MIDI CC messages.

You can set the Kontakt plug-in wrapper to pass on all MIDI: right-click the [In/Out] button in the FX header for the menu:


Or, you could set the Options within Kontakt to "pass on incoming MIDI CCs".

But ... I think I would switch to using Reaper's own MIDI Learn Automation to control the parameters in all the plug-ins. Then I have only one mechanism to deal with.

Loads of details are in the Reaper User Guide.

[dreadnought]

You guys are champs. That Reaper trick allowed me to get things working right in Reaper for both plugins, and the Kontakt setting lets me use the Evolution guitar library in Bitwig with the wah effect. I don't see any similar setting in Heavier 7 Strings for passing along MIDI CCs, so that one is still not working in Bitwig, but three out of four scenarios is pretty great.

I used to use Ableton years ago and thought I remembered setting up multiple VST folders, but I guess I was wrong. It seems like no native bridging like Reaper and Bitwig is a real disadvantage. Who wants to use only 32 or 64 bit plugins in their DAW?

Anyway, thanks for the quick help, guys. If you ever find yourselves in Portland, OR, PM me. I'll buy you all the beer you can drink.

Dan

[zzz00m]

Here's a bonus point question for anyone familiar with Live: It looks to me like Live will only scan a single VST folder in the setup options. I have my plugins in two different folders, though, for 32 and 64 bit. Can the DAW really only use the contents of one or the other folder? In Reaper and Bitwig, of course, you can have them scan as many folders as you like.

Dan

For additional Ableton Live VST folders, all you need to do is add a shortcut(s) in the one designated folder to the additional VST folders. Run the scan again. It will find them. Works like a champ!

[dreadnought]

Thanks for the tip!