KVR Audio

FathomSynth · Post by **FathomSynth** » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:12 pm

It's hard to determine your desires based on all the posts.

What exactly are you trying to do?

Do you want an always smooth release, or a snap up to literal release?

Also, if you don't want the points between segments to always be the same (glide) un-toggle the Segment Edges toggle so it says Step, then you can set the amplitude of the first point of a segment to a different value than the last point of the preceding segment.

TrojakEW · Post by **TrojakEW** » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:19 pm

Now when I see your image I know where is problem. You have to set Segment Edges to Step (in your on example image you have Glide). With Step setting you will have two dots on same time to change .

FathomSynth · Post by **FathomSynth** » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:23 pm

That's right, if you do that, because the amplitude of 2 does not = 1, the envelope will be take literally.

By literally I mean that Fathom will assume that you really want the release phase segment amplitude to start at 2, rather than just where ever the envelope amplitude got interrupted by a note release.

It will jump to amplitude 2 and start the release regardless of when you release the note.

Local Man · Post by **Local Man** » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:37 pm

FathomSynth wrote:It's hard to determine your desires based on all the posts.

What exactly are you trying to do?

Do you want an always smooth release, or a snap up to literal release?

Also, if you don't want the points between segments to always be the same (glide) un-toggle the Segment Edges toggle so it says Step, then you can set the amplitude of the first point of a segment to a different value than the last point of the preceding segment.

I'll give you an example with a plucked string type of sound and conventional (knob or fader based) ADSR settings.
If A = 1.00 (fader all the way up, full volume on), D = 0.50 (fader half way up) , S = 0.00, and R = 0.25. Then if I just tap the note it goes from full volume straight to release stage, which will decay quickly (0.25 rate). But if I hold the note, the decay will take twice as long (0.50 rate). If I release it at any point in the decay phase then wherever the level happens to be it will begin to decay at the faster Release rate. But if I held the note until it decayed to zero then there is no level left to send to the Release stage so there is no sound heard after I release the note at that point.
That is how every ADSR I've used before works.
With Fathom however, if I hold the note all the through the decay stage until the volume reaches zero (for Sustain = 0), then when I release the note the level still jumps back up to the Release start level even though it had already faded completely away.
(And by the way, I figured out how to achieve the envelope behavior in Trojak's image.)

FathomSynth · Post by **FathomSynth** » Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:00 pm

Yes, that is correct, the Fathom ADSR does NOT work like any other synth (this is intentional not accidental).

It has two modes, smooth and literal, and it decides which type of ADSR you are trying to do according to whether or not the points at the Note Off bar are equal (smooth) or not equal (literal).

I will try to explain how it is different for each of your scenarios above.

1 Tap
Other Synths: Jump from current amplitude to release amplitude (discontinuous).
Fathom Mode 1 Smooth: Release is always smooth and starts from wherever the envelope was interrupted.
Fathom Mode 2 Literal: Release always jumps to literal release starting point amplitude.

2 Interrupt Decay Phase
Other Synths: Start release phase smoothly from current level of decay phase.
Fathom Mode 1 Smooth: Same as other synths, release starts from where the envelope was interrupted.
Fathom Mode 2 Literal: Release always jumps to literal release starting point amplitude.

3. Hold to end of decay phase with zero sustain level.
Other Synths: No release amplitude.
Fathom Mode 1 Smooth: No release amplitude.
Fathom Mode 2 Literal: Release always jumps to literal release starting point amplitude.

4. Start attack before end of release.
Other Synths (like Spire): Good synths will start the attack where the previous release got interrupted for smooth pads.
Fathom smoothadsr=1 Like other synths, attack phase starts where release phase left off for smooth pads.
Fathom smoothadsr=0 Envelope is taken literally and attack starts at amplitude of first point regardless.

Local Man · Post by **Local Man** » Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:44 pm

FathomSynth wrote:Yes, that is correct, the Fathom ADSR does NOT work like any other synth (this is intentional not accidental).

It has two modes, smooth and literal, and it decides which type of ADSR you are trying to do according to whether or not the points at the Note Off bar are equal (smooth) or not equal (literal).

I will try to explain how it is different for each of your scenarios above.

1 Tap
Other Synths: Jump from current amplitude to release amplitude (discontinuous).
Fathom Mode 1 Smooth: Release is always smooth and starts from wherever the envelope was interrupted.
Fathom Mode 2 Literal: Release always jumps to literal release starting point amplitude.

2 Interrupt Decay Phase
Other Synths: Start release phase smoothly from current level of decay phase.
Fathom Mode 1 Smooth: Same as other synths, release starts from where the envelope was interrupted.
Fathom Mode 2 Literal: Release always jumps to literal release starting point amplitude.

3. Hold to end of decay phase with zero sustain level.
Other Synths: No release amplitude.
Fathom Mode 1 Smooth: No release amplitude.
Fathom Mode 2 Literal: Release always jumps to literal release starting point amplitude.

4. Start attack before end of release.
Other Synths (like Spire): Good synths will start the attack where the previous release got interrupted for smooth pads.
Fathom smoothadsr=1 Like other synths, attack phase starts where release phase left off for smooth pads.
Fathom smoothadsr=0 Envelope is taken literally and attack starts at amplitude of first point regardless.

Thanks for the explanation.
I appreciate the sophisticated and innovative envelope behavior implemented in Fathom.
I do think it would be nice to have a "conventional" mode that would behave in the way I explained above.
One application of that for me is for kick drum sounds. Similar to an actual drummer using a drum pedal, sometimes I just tap the key (similar to releasing your foot off the pedal so the beater bounces back) and sometimes I hold the key until the next kick drum hit (similar to leaving your foot on the pedal between hits, or "burying the beater").
Beyond that, this type of envelope behavior would help accommodate a variety of playing techniques for "plucked" type sounds (like clavinet for example), where you expect the same type of decay regardless of when you lift your fingers off the keys.

FathomSynth · Post by **FathomSynth** » Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:14 pm

"where you expect the same type of decay regardless of when you lift your fingers off the keys"

Yes, that is "literal" mode, it already does that.

Are you saying you want a third mode where if you pick up during the attack phase it jumps, and if you pick up during the decay phase it is smooth?

JKF Flashico · Post by **JKF Flashico** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:32 am

Hi here is my OSC 109 Fathom synth challenge track

This is great synth and I have also bought this synth. Thanks for Mr Fathom you have done great job all the time than you have done updates so fast here. Good luck for everyone!

DAW: Cubase Pro 8

Every sounds are from init and there are 23 track.

DAW effects: Standard EQ *5, Maximizer *1, PingPongDelay *1, Revelation Reverb *1, Curve EQ *1, EnvelopeShaper *2, Compressor *1, MultiBandCompressor *1

Free effects: OldSkoolVerb *2, Ozone Imager *1, Roth AIR *1, Limited -Z *1

https://soundcloud.com/jkflashico/jkfla ... hine-fever

Aro · Post by **Aro** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:50 pm

JKFlashico: Very enjoyable track. Feel good and have fun!

Aro · Post by **Aro** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:59 pm

Hey everyone! This is my official entry into the One Synth Challenge. I arrived a little late into it, so I went straight for the presets. My track is all presets in fact, though they were tweaked a bit to add brightness and shape.

My DAW: Studio One 3

Some stock plugins were used. EQ and reverb on a few tracks, with a limiter on the master bus.

I used 7 instances of Fathom. I love Fathom. Great sound.

Here it is...

https://soundcloud.com/lionsclub-1/on-the-scent

JKF Flashico · Post by **JKF Flashico** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:33 pm

Aro wrote:JKFlashico: Very enjoyable track. Feel good and have fun!

Thanks you enjoy it

and welcome aboard mate

RPH · Post by **RPH** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:11 pm

DAW: Renoise
Style: House
Instances: 15
Presets: all from init, one preset has my voice for some single cycle waveforms.
DAW FX: Exciter and Compressor.
Free bus FX: Limiter №6, Ozone imager
Free master FX: TDR SlickEQ, Sonic Anomaly Unlimited, Voxengo SPAN, Youlean Loudness meter.

https://soundcloud.com/rph/hogs-in-space

Scrubbing Monkeys · Post by **Scrubbing Monkeys** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:23 pm

RPH wrote:DAW: Renoise
Style: House
Instances: 15
Presets: all from init, one preset has my voice for some single cycle waveforms.
DAW FX: Exciter and Compressor.
Free bus FX: Limiter №6, Ozone imager
Free master FX: TDR SlickEQ, Sonic Anomaly Unlimited, Voxengo SPAN, Youlean Loudness meter.

https://soundcloud.com/rph/hogs-in-space

That was really cool. Nice sounds and the mix was fantastic. Somehow reminded me alot of Halloween.

RPH · Post by **RPH** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:34 pm

Thanks! Am not totally satisfied, but had to let go before I would ruin the intended vibe.
Can’t wait to vote and comment on all, first few tracks I heard were great already..lightyears ahead of what I could ever make.

Cheers!

TheNeverScene · Post by **TheNeverScene** » Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:33 am

Well, i thought I was finished, but it's OSC and I'm addicted, so I've updated my track. It's a bit different, so I apologize to anyone who already commented

One Synth Challenge #109: Fathom Synth by Seaweed Audio (mmGhost wins!)