KVR Audio

Mister Natural · Post by **Mister Natural** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:40 pm

2 quick Q ?s : does this free version of Sonar offer vocal track "comping" ?
does it "rewire" into Ableton ?

thanks huge

rocksmoot · Post by **rocksmoot** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:46 pm

Lots of folks don't like Sonar. I'm not one of them. Lots of people think Reaper (or Studio One, or Logic) represents the best that a DAW can be, and I'm not one of those people either.

I also own Reaper (I keep the license up to date whenever it's time). Every now and then I fire up Reaper and start a project in it, determined to get to a place where it's intuitive for me and since I own it, I feel compelled to use it. I commit to using it for a month because imho it takes that long to really understand the logic behind a DAW's design. When that month is up I always end up starting the next project in Sonar. I like how Sonar does things. I don't like a lot of how Reaper does things. I love how Sonar looks. I absolutely loathe the look of Reaper, and Studio One v3.5 for that matter. It's just that simple.

Unlike several people here, I find the UI very attractive and easy to understand. I strongly disagree with the 1998 comment expressed earlier. If you want that experience, try Sonar 8.5.

I have downloaded several demos of other DAW offerings but I never pulled the trigger on one and never seriously considered embracing an alternative even when Gibson pulled the plug on Cakewalk. I figured I'd ride that horse as long as I could and then figure something else out when I had to. But I'm not a pro user so I have that luxury.

BandLab's iteration of Sonar installed quickly and it works perfectly. Since I have Platinum also installed, nothing whatsoever is missing from the BandLab version. I did have to set up my vst paths for it to find all my plugins (Melodyne, Izotope, AD2, Helix Native, Guitar Rig, Waves). Once I did that I was off and running.

I am extremely grateful that BandLab picked up Sonar. I hope they continue to invest in and improve this fantastic product for a long time to come. So don't let the naysayers convince you to avoid one of the best DAW's on the market, free or otherwise.

rocksmoot · Post by **rocksmoot** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:54 pm

Mister Natural wrote:2 quick Q ?s : does this free version of Sonar offer vocal track "comping" ?
does it "rewire" into Ableton ?

thanks huge

There is no difference in functionality between the BandLab version of Sonar and Gibson/Cakewalk's flagship product except for a variety of bundled third-party plugins.

Yes, vocal comping is supported.

Using Rewire - this video is from a prior version of Sonar but I believe the process is still the same:

There are a gazillion videos on YouTube for Sonar and may of the older ones for X1, X2 and X3 still apply.

dellboy · Post by **dellboy** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:00 pm

Mister Natural wrote:2 quick Q ?s : does this free version of Sonar offer vocal track "comping" ?
does it "rewire" into Ableton ?

thanks huge

Yes to both.

dellboy · Post by **dellboy** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:11 pm

rocksmoot wrote:
I am extremely grateful that BandLab picked up Sonar. I hope they continue to invest in and improve this fantastic product for a long time to come. So don't let the naysayers convince you to avoid one of the best DAW's on the market, free or otherwise.

Totally agree.

Now I have set it up and found out how to boot up my default template I am beginning to really get into this daw. The keyboard shortcuts are similar to Live and most of the basics are just a key press away. Speaking of Live, I am starting to experiment with the matrix view and dragging and firing my own made up clips which automatically loop when dropped into a cell.

The only thing I have failed to get up and running is my Novation controller using automap which has refused to work despite spending hours of trying.

Zexila · Post by **Zexila** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:50 am

Zexila wrote:still can't find option to change piano roll grid size...

Found the problem, "View>Show Vertical Gridlines" was unchecked.

Great thing is if you double click ProChannel EQ's screen or up it get's bigger, happy accident find.

chillpill · Post by **chillpill** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:14 am

Excellent comparative overview lanfear!
I think that instead of free = devaluing, more people now have the opportunity to see exactly what Cakewalk has to offer, and discover its incredible value.
The naysayers are so tedious. One size does not fit all. Get over it already, move on.
To everyone else, it would be kinda silly to NOT at least give Cakewalk a try. You might just love it.

robbie111 · Post by **robbie111** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:51 am

Yeah Cakewalk is totally underrated. Really impressed that the owner Meng personally answers questions and concerns in the Sonar forum so quickly. Haven't seen that with any other DAW that I've used. Could see Cakewalk becoming the defacto standard DAW for Education. Looks like they have lots of plans and updates ahead from what Noel and Meng said.

zenophilix · Post by **zenophilix** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:27 am

robbie111 wrote:Yeah Cakewalk is totally underrated. Really impressed that the owner Meng personally answers questions and concerns in the Sonar forum so quickly. Haven't seen that with any other DAW that I've used. Could see Cakewalk becoming the defacto standard DAW for Education. Looks like they have lots of plans and updates ahead from what Noel and Meng said.

This. Not to invalidate anyone's opinions, but I really don't see any reason to be too upset by this. If you bought it just before Cakewalk folded, then that sucks, but otherwise, you can essentially get Sonar Platinum for free. Free.

noiseboyuk · Post by **noiseboyuk** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:36 am

Yes, agreed with the tone of the last few posts and indeed pages, saving us from peak-KVR.

Good call about education, robbie. Totally logical that all teenage composers start with Cakewalk now, and many / most will take it with them as they grow. If they use it in schools and colleges, then there's no barriers to using it at home too, swapping between the two should be easy. There's never been a good free DAW for Windows before, I'd have thought the effect on the market will be profound, though not perhaps immediate. As and when they complete the port to Mac, I can see the other devs becoming a little nervous.

Also worth remembering that Cakewalk is very well stocked-feature wise, so it's not an equivalent to Garageband (though will have a steeper learning curve to be fair). Vocal Sync in particular looks enviably good.

IMO this is the biggest shake up in the DAW market for many years.

noiseboyuk · Post by **noiseboyuk** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:39 am

...one more thought, re monetisation. I suspect we'll see add-on packages, possibly quite soon, with those third party features that have been removed (Melodyne, drummer etc).

robotmonkey · Post by **robotmonkey** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:07 am

noiseboyuk wrote:Totally logical that all teenage composers start with Cakewalk now, and many / most will take it with them as they grow.

An average teenager of today has an attention span of no more than a time it takes to read a tweet. Not sure Sonar Platinum is a suitable tool for them to start making music.

And this is what's puzzling me - Bandlab is a new young hip startup with a music making app. I guess their user base is mostly young hipster making tunes on their phones. Sonar on the other hand is your proverbial "dad's DAW" that has a long legacy and convoluted interface and that mostly is used by old goats.

So my take is that now that they have released it for free, over time they will start to simplify it and remove features to make it more like something like Magix Music Maker which is also given away for free now. You know, make it more edm kid friendly, so you can drag loops from the Bandlab assistant to quickly fix up a tune that you can put on Soundcloud or Beatport.

Also the ripped out content will probably return as in-app purchases and microtransactions with ads in place of the non owned content.

chillpill · Post by **chillpill** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:14 am

I agree that this is great for students. A big part of free high-end software a la Blackmagic is indoctrination. If ur learning ur craft in Da Vinci Resolve or Fusion or Cakewalk the chances are u'd like to use that software when ur a professional too.
Welcome to the ecosystem. Essentially the software piggybacks into pro studios everywhere and challenges the status quo.

Another off-spin could be the repurposing of code/DSP for the Bandlab app. Cakewalk has some really great native plugins. There's the ProChannel comps and EQs, a couple of tasty channel strips for percussion and voice iirc, the mixing desk emulations...SSL, Neve and Trident iirc, and a tape emu.
What a great playground to explore and experiment and HEAR things and to PRACTICE hearing subtleties when ur starting out.
What other free or relatively cheap DAW has that level of completeness to it?
Iirc u can create custom effect chains too and create a "macro" GUI with only the controls u need to see. What a cool feature.

Anyway, I'm not a fanboy... and Studio One is my go-to... but I seriously think this move by Bandlab is a winner. Win-win all round.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:37 am

robotmonkey wrote:So my take is that now that they have released it for free, over time they will start to simplify it and remove features to make it more like something like Magix Music Maker which is also given away for free now. You know, make it more edm kid friendly, so you can drag loops from the Bandlab assistant to quickly fix up a tune that you can put on Soundcloud or Beatport..

Even your own example contraindicates for your conclusion; Magix still keep the full-blown editions of all their 'light' packages under development, including Samplitude and Sequoia. Apple still develop Logic despite Garageband. Reason continues despite Figure. etc etc. And just about every single major DAW has a lightweight version.

I can see the products converging in look and feel and intercompatibility, but the notion that the major package will be dumbed down just because there's a simpler alternative from the same company just isnt borne out by the history in that marketplace.

baaz · Post by **baaz** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:59 pm

As a free DAW Cakewalk surely is very tempting and i think this move will make it very hard for less featured budget DAWs like Mixcraft, to survive in the market. From what i've read in pro audio forums SONAR has a bad reputation for it's buggy behavior(even the audio engine is often regarded buggy), which the only thing holding me back from using it rn as i'm trying to settle on a DAW. Is it really that bad ? any experiences with latest releases ?

Cakewalk Sonar Platinum is now free!