Using Blue Cat Audio's Axiom - First Impressions - In 4 parts

[juliansader]

About presets: there are indeed several levels of presets: global presets at the top actually store the full state of the plug-in (including input/master and both A and B - it's just that many presets only use a single channel). You can then manage presets for each channel (A and B), or for each effect chain (you can also copy and paste from one chain to another, including input and master effect chains). And at the very bottom of it, there are presets for each hosted plug-in and for amp simulations (fully compatible with Destructor).

I really, really hope that Axiom would include several presets for deep, dark, aggressive GROWL tones -- like an angry, snarling dragon.

(Either for a bass or for the low strings of a 7-string guitar.)

I have already spent an embarrassing amount of time trying and tweaking many other amp sims, but without any luck. I seem to encounter two main problems:

* Low-pitched notes lose definition and are relatively susceptible to fizz if the gain is increased. (In particular, if I try to use the same setup for higher and lower notes, the lower notes get very fizzy.)

* Whatever little "growl" I get, adds distortion to the midrange instead of the bass range. To my ears, it sounds to me as if there is a disconnect between the low-pitched fundamentals of the notes and the midrange growl: I can still hear the original undistorted notes below the midrange growl, almost as if the distortion is simply added on top of the original notes, without distorting or changing the original notes. A dragon's growl should be very deep!

Such deep, growly tones are more commonly associated with the bass, but I hope that I can also achieve something similar with a 7-string guitar.

As an example: Karnivool is famous (among bass players, at least) for their brutal, growling bass tone. In the following bass cover of Karnivool's Simple Boy, a Gallien-Krueger bass amp is used to great effect:

[EvilDragon]

You did get a few replies and pointers in the Kazrog subforum, Julian Especially useful should be Shane's tips there, about highpassing the source before distortion, and running clean and distorted in parallel, while also compressing the bejeezus out of it.

[glokraw]

I really, really hope that Axiom would include several presets for deep, dark, aggressive GROWL tones -- like an angry, snarling dragon.

I think I'd go for a synth like Alchemy to provide the growl,
with it's pair of XY controller to control it, on a midi controller
with hearable velocity controls, and then add de-esser/filters
as needed, all before getting an ampsim/suite involved.
Cheers

[GreyLion]

Quick note -- The tip to switch to mono input with both amps running, with a some added VSTs in the four slot locations, dropped my CPU from 20% to 14%. And since most guitars are mono, there's no audio difference. Haven't yet tested to see if this is a 6% static drop or a dynamic 30% drop. Since I was starting to get the occasional glitch with low buffer settings, this is Nice!

[GreyLion]

Quick note -- The tip to switch to mono input with both amps running, with a some added VSTs in the four slot locations, dropped my CPU from 20% to 14%. And since most guitars are mono, there's no audio difference. Haven't yet tested to see if this is a 6% static drop or a dynamic 30% drop. Since I was starting to get the occasional glitch with low buffer settings, this is Nice!

[Blue Cat Audio]

Yes, it is definitely worth the trouble, especially if you are using the two channels with many effects. You can save up to 50% of the CPU usage if all your effects are in the mono signal chain. It depends on the preset and the effects that you have loaded, so in your particular case it should be a dynamic 30% drop.

[Tappistry]

Update regarding my request for processing two individual effect chains for stereo instruments:

The folks at Blue Cat have since included a preset for exactly what I was requesting. Axiom was capable of doing this, but since I was still learning my way around the software at the time I made my post, I didn't know how to accomplish that. Fred at Blue Cat was patient enough with me to explain it over email as well.

So props to Blue Cat for taking care of us folks, likely a relatively small group compared to an abundance of mono signal path guitarists, who are playing stereo instruments with this.

Once I can figure out a little riff I like enough to spread to the world, I'll post up a quick Soundcloud clip with some light effects on the Stick so you can get an idea of how this sounds with a slightly different instrument.

[Blue Cat Audio]

Glad that it works well for you! The dual input feature is actually useful in other cases too:
- some guitars have a dual piezo/magnetic pickups output. You may want to use both at the same time, and of course process them separately.
- using the standalone app, you can plug two guitars (or a guitar and a bass), like in the good old days when plugging two instruments in the same amp. But here you can and use different effects & amp models for each!

[DarkStar]

Given that

(a) Let's get the big KVR question out of the way -- Yes. It contains full implementations of Destructor and Late Replies.
...
(b) It also loads VSTs and VST3s
...
(c) Almost all controls can be exposed for MIDI learn, so some truly twisted possibilities present themselves.

(Qa) will updates to Destructor and Late Replies also be applied to Axiom?
(Qb) and VSTis, at some stage (that may be a silly question )?
(Qc) Do the exposed controls have meaningful names (or can they be renamed) or are they anonymous numbers (like the mapped params in PatchWork)?

(Qd) If I have Axiom, what more does PatchWork provide?
(Qe) Any news on availability / price / upgrade / crossgrade possibilities?

[GreyLion]

Quick partial reply from me --

Yes, it does load VSTi's -- They go into the Tools slots at the bottom. I was playing with Addictive Drums 2 last night and it worked fine. I'm assuming that other sequencers, drum machines, and so on, should be good, too.

I tried using EZPlayer Pro in front of it to load loops from my way-too-large library of them, and couldn't get it to work, but the new manual says that I can assign MIDI ins and outs, which should let it trigger MIDI loops. Just ran out of time to mess with that. AD2, of course, will load loops on its own, as will many other drum programs.

It's actually possible to load VSTi's in slots in other places, but I couldn't get them to trigger or pass audio. If the MIDI channels work with these, and make them functional in, say, the preamp slots, it could get extremely weird for you sound designer types.

So far, I haven't found an edge to this plug, something that I could sanely expect it to do, but that it doesn't.

But you do have to put the time in, if you're going to step away from using presets. Incidentally, BCA continues to add presets with the two updates that I've seen. There are now over 400 amp presets, for instance. Many with recognizable real-world gear names, song names, and guitarist names. Exactly what I was hoping they'd do.

This is a really deep piece of software, and you can intervene in the signal path in almost any way you can imagine, using both audio and MIDI.

Not that I don't think that some of the more creative people here won't be able to find a way to break it...

... I plan this week to see if I can use JamOrigin's MIDI Guitar 2 in Axiom, in which case things can become even more odd. I think. Haven't fully conceptualized that yet.

[Blue Cat Audio]

Thank you for your interest in Axiom (and thanks to GreyLion for replying). Please find below our answers:

(Qa) will updates to Destructor and Late Replies also be applied to Axiom?
Yes we'll keep them in sync since Destructor and Late Replies share their data (presets, settings etc.° with the built-in versions available in Axiom

(Qb) and VSTis, at some stage (that may be a silly question )?
VSTis are fully supported. You can load them into the "tools" area at the bottom, if you want to play along with virtual instruments. This is mainly useful (IMHO) when using the standalone app, but it also works when used as a plug-in.

(Qc) Do the exposed controls have meaningful names (or can they be renamed) or are they anonymous numbers (like the mapped params in PatchWork)?
It's just like with PatchWork, Late Replies or the MB-7 Mixer right now. Individual plug-in bypass controls are however directly available for automation or MIDI control.

(Qd) If I have Axiom, what more does PatchWork provide?
Axiom is really streamlined for guitar and bass amp sims+effects, so it offers less flexibility than PatchWork, which has more plug-in slots and more parallel chains. You may typically want to use PatchWork inside of Axiom if you want to patch several effects in parallel or user multi-layered instruments with MIDI effects in the tools slots. The workflow is quite different for both plug-ins.

(Qe) Any news on availability / price / upgrade / crossgrade possibilities?
I was recently told it's already Q2,... So very soon!

[DarkStar]

Got it, many thanks

[Tappistry]

Quick partial reply from me --

Yes, it does load VSTi's -- They go into the Tools slots at the bottom. I was playing with Addictive Drums 2 last night and it worked fine. I'm assuming that other sequencers, drum machines, and so on, should be good, too.

I tried using EZPlayer Pro in front of it to load loops from my way-too-large library of them, and couldn't get it to work, but the new manual says that I can assign MIDI ins and outs, which should let it trigger MIDI loops. Just ran out of time to mess with that. AD2, of course, will load loops on its own, as will many other drum programs.

It's actually possible to load VSTi's in slots in other places, but I couldn't get them to trigger or pass audio. If the MIDI channels work with these, and make them functional in, say, the preamp slots, it could get extremely weird for you sound designer types.

So far, I haven't found an edge to this plug, something that I could sanely expect it to do, but that it doesn't.

But you do have to put the time in, if you're going to step away from using presets. Incidentally, BCA continues to add presets with the two updates that I've seen. There are now over 400 amp presets, for instance. Many with recognizable real-world gear names, song names, and guitarist names. Exactly what I was hoping they'd do.

This is a really deep piece of software, and you can intervene in the signal path in almost any way you can imagine, using both audio and MIDI.

Not that I don't think that some of the more creative people here won't be able to find a way to break it...

... I plan this week to see if I can use JamOrigin's MIDI Guitar 2 in Axiom, in which case things can become even more odd. I think. Haven't fully conceptualized that yet.

GreyLion,

FWIW, maybe I'm a bit of a noob with MIDI routing, but I'm also having some issues getting my B-Step Sequencer plugin talk to synths inside of Axiom and also Patchwork. Maybe Blue Cat could provide a tip here?

[Blue Cat Audio]

To connect a source (arpeggiator, sequencer...) and destination (Virtual Instrument) MIDI plug-ins in Axiom, PatchWork, Late Replies or MB-7 Mixer, you should do the following:
1. Make sure the source plug-in is placed before the destination plug-in in the signal chain
2. Make sure the source plug-in generates events on a MIDI channel that the destination plug-in can understand.
3. Connect the MIDI OUT of the source plug-in to an internal MIDI port (A, B,C... to P) - see the MIDI I/O menu item. "All Channels" preferred unless you are using a specific channel.
4. Connect the MIDI IN of the destination plug-in to the same port/channel
5. (Optional) Disconnect the "host" MIDI IN port for the dest plug-in if you do not want that the plug-in also receives MIDI from the outside.

Hope this helps!

[dusted william]

does Axiom have speaker emulators?