KVR Audio

plexuss · Post by **plexuss** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:27 pm

dreamvoid wrote:
plexuss wrote:
Liero wrote:That microtonic example was very good and demonstrative. If you can remove transients in that transparent a manner, then this seems very powerful
Yes. Thank you. That is exactly the point of it.
Ok. I didn't thought it is something special. I can do the same very nicely with Sonnox Envolution. Removing transients isn't such a big deal as bringing out transients which sound natural.

You're amazing. How about posting some audio to show us how amazing you are.

dreamvoid · Post by **dreamvoid** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:18 pm

plexuss wrote: You're amazing. How about posting some audio to show us how amazing you are.

I'm glad not having your problems. This is your show - who am I to question your samples? Please continue ...

Caine123 · Post by **Caine123** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:28 pm

does anyone know why a underwater/bubble effect is generated and why?

plexuss · Post by **plexuss** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:53 pm

Caine123 wrote:does anyone know why a underwater/bubble effect is generated and why?

I love that! you have the delta on, perhaps? delta plays the difference between the wet and dry signal which is what will be cut and boosted from the dry signal. with some settings you get the cool watery effect which to me is another unintended benefit of spiff!

Caine123 · Post by **Caine123** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:57 pm

plexuss wrote:
Caine123 wrote:does anyone know why a underwater/bubble effect is generated and why?
I love that! you have the delta on, perhaps? delta plays the difference between the wet and dry signal which is what will be cut and boosted from the dry signal. with some settings you get the cool watery effect which to me is another unintended benefit of spiff!

yeah maybe for sounddesign or something but not for mixing

plexuss · Post by **plexuss** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:37 pm

@dreamvoid Here is an example with boost (adding/accentuating transients). I focused in on specifc parts of the spectrum that had a musical sound and set the bandwidth to capture them and increase their gain. If you listen closely you can hear some artifacts. they aren't too bad though because they in themselves are soft of "musical". this is that "watery" sound you can get with delta. if you push things too far and with specific audio you can get this watery artifacting. you can hear it on the tops of the transients in this example.

I had to put a limiter on the master because the transients were going over. I carefully balanced the loudness of each to -16 LUFS.

To be clear: This is not an attempt to make a better sounding wet signal. It's about exploring the sound quality of Spiff. The wet version is not necessarily better than anything else.

https://soundcloud.com/musicofplexus/oe ... et/s-JovgG

And there is the other one which is more boost than cut using two spiffs in series:

https://soundcloud.com/musicofplexus/oe ... et/s-vAZcK

dreamvoid · Post by **dreamvoid** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:20 pm

"This track was not found. Maybe it has been removed" -> first SoundCloud link.
SoundCloud is bad sounding data reduced streaming IMO. Especially transients and room information get lost easily. Maybe that is not the best way to show processing of transients. I heard again the first example in the studio and the processed part sounds very live less and killed with a bad sounding filtering. I have now a demo license of Spiff on my iLok account and will check later.

plexuss · Post by **plexuss** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:26 pm

dreamvoid wrote:"This track was not found. Maybe it has been removed" -> first SoundCloud link.
SoundCloud is bad sounding data reduced streaming IMO. Especially transients and room information get lost easily. Maybe that is not the best way to show processing of transients. I heard again the first example in the studio and the processed part sounds very live less and killed with a bad sounding filtering. I have now a demo license of Spiff on my iLok account and will check later.

I had to update the link. works now.

It's true that SC reduces audio quality. However I've done a lot of testing between source files and how they reproduce over SC. I've come up with a process that finds a nice balance between sound quality and SC streaming. Yes it's still not as good as the original uncompressed format, but it's not so bad it's not worth listening too - in fact, for me, I find SC does a pretty good job.

I will enable downloads on thost two tracks and you download the original wavs.

dreamvoid · Post by **dreamvoid** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:41 am

This example sounds much better than the other one. But I just finished testing Spiff a bit myself with material I know well. It puts a veil over all audio I tried which I don't like. This is a colouration I don't want. Sonnox Envolution sounds so much better and 'natural' in comparison.
I listened with RME ADI-8 QS as the D/A and ADAM S3A monitors.

plexuss · Post by **plexuss** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:59 am

dreamvoid wrote:This example sounds much better than the other one. But I just finished testing Spiff a bit myself with material I know well. It puts a veil over all audio I tried which I don't like. This is a colouration I don't want. Sonnox Envolution sounds so much better and 'natural' in comparison.
I listened with RME ADI-8 QS as the D/A and ADAM S3A monitors.

After my time with Spiff, I also can hear the artifacting. However I have been able to reign it in to where it sounds pretty good. I think Spiff has a very wide range of operation compared to other transient processors I use. It sounds like its doing some funky audio processing. I still need to spend time with it.

TIMT · Post by **TIMT** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:21 am

Both those examples have rather typical FFT like artefacts.its far from being natural.its not necessarily bad,given that artefacts from FFT,resynthesis and the like is an acquired taste,but in those examples i don't think it flatters the sounds at all.take the Microtonic loop for example,if you stick that in a track with fast transients its going to make those "Spiffed"transients sounds slow as fuuuuck,which is probably going to make you perceive those tracks as duller in the context of everything else (and you can't EQ back in sheen or high mid/high end crack into something that has has spectral processing on it.it just accentuates the spectral-ness of it due to the smearing of the spectral information at the onset of the sound)

The almost wooden hollow pluck sound with the spiff has lost what little solidity it had.the low mids have become mushy and diffused and the transients (the thing its supposed to of enhanced)almost sound like they are playing a different articulation (useful possibly in some contexts,but definitely not mixing)

I dunno,i generally don't like putting spectral anything near a mixdown and especially if its not my mixdown.they do more harm than good and impose too many blatant sonic differences to the source material

I think i'll pass the Spiffy to the left hand side

dreamvoid · Post by **dreamvoid** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:42 am

TIMT wrote:Both those examples have rather typical FFT like artefacts.its far from being natural.its not necessarily bad,given that artefacts from FFT,resynthesis and the like is an acquired taste,but in those examples i don't think it flatters the sounds at all.

Exactly! This is even quite prominent. I heard similar things with the Freiraum stuff. You get a strange "hollow" (good description) colouration to your sound and can never get rid of it.

plexuss · Post by **plexuss** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:22 pm

dreamvoid wrote:
TIMT wrote:Both those examples have rather typical FFT like artefacts.its far from being natural.its not necessarily bad,given that artefacts from FFT,resynthesis and the like is an acquired taste,but in those examples i don't think it flatters the sounds at all.
Exactly! This is even quite prominent. I heard similar things with the Freiraum stuff. You get a strange "hollow" (good description) colouration to your sound and can never get rid of it.

I am starting to feel the same way about Spiff. Although it has some nice features for a transient processor, some not found elsewhere that make it very useful, and a wide range of action, the artifacts are concerning. However I did use it in a mix on some tracks and I do like the end result. So it may be more useful in a busy mix where the artifacts are going to be masked. A more natural sounding processor may be prudent for more sparce or delicate mixes. Still assessing however, it's value at about $125US intro price....

Caine123 · Post by **Caine123** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:36 pm

Now im concerned. How do you hear those artifacts? Maybe im dumb to hear them?

plexuss · Post by **plexuss** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:07 pm

Caine123 wrote:Now im concerned. How do you hear those artifacts? Maybe im dumb to hear them?

Use the delta parameter in boost mode. this will output only the Spiff affected audio. Play with the controls specifcally depth, sensitivity and decay to get the transients sounding. you will hear they have this watery sort of sound. focus on that. then turn delta off. you should be able to hear that watery character on the transients.

Granted it's not horrible or unusable. I am going to post a mix where I used Spiff on a number of tracks, including the individual tracks - I can't really hear the artifacts in the mix. Yes Spiff has audible artifacts but in practice I am not sure they are a deal breaker or not. More demoing....

Oeksound Spiff released!