Forced Upgrades

[woggle]

but I am not happy that I can't run my CS6 version of Adobe Audition on win10 and that has put me off buying or "clouding" their products.

Hang on , if Adobe Audition CS6 doesn't support Windows 10, wouldn't that include Photoshop CS6 ? There have been times where I've converted video material with it's video editing feature but of course I use the retail Photoshop CS6 on a pretty much a daily basis with Windows 7 64 Bit...If it doesn't run on Windows 10 then that's news to me.

no idea - I tried everything I could to get Audition working. I use Photoshop CC still although I have an alternative that is okay (Affinity) but i need Photoshop for compatibility with others

[ontol]

but I am not happy that I can't run my CS6 version of Adobe Audition on win10 and that has put me off buying or "clouding" their products.

Hang on , if Adobe Audition CS6 doesn't support Windows 10, wouldn't that include Photoshop CS6 ? There have been times where I've converted video material with it's video editing feature but of course I use the retail Photoshop CS6 on a pretty much a daily basis with Windows 7 64 Bit...If it doesn't run on Windows 10 then that's news to me.

Not exactly the same thing here, but close: I am running the Adobe Design Premium Suite 5.5 on Win10 for the last few months (mostly PS--Audition is not a part of the suite) with no problems.

[THE INTRANCER]

It's just occurred to me that if Photoshop CS6 if that was the case from what's been said previously, that it wouldn't run natively under Windows 10, then surely it would run under the compatibility mode from accessing the launch icon's properties and selecting Win 7 / Win 8 so it would function ? Personally it's not currently an issue, but I imagine that it would be for many if that was the case.

[Jace-BeOS]

With Apple you know that they support n-2 with their OS and n-1 with Logic Pro X. And Logic users don’t have to upgrade Logic if the OS still has a year left on it. You just don’t get the lastest features. They’ve made it pretty compelling to keep Logic current.

For me having up to three years is more than enough. I’ve found in the last two years most vendors have lastest MacOS support within 60-120 days after release. Four months isn’t much time to wait. That being said if you have a stable known configuration you should be reasonably good for two years between upgrades.

Hardware on the Mac side is much longer. I recently retired my 2009 MacBook Pro in January. It still ran El Capitan natively. The 10.4 release of Logic was compelling enough for me to move on and get a newer Laptop.

That’s just me.

And Apple users think all that is good. LOL

No we don't think all that is good. We are (or I am, at least) simply finding the Apple stuff to be less enraging than the alternatives.

I moved to Apple computers and Logic from Windows PC and Sonar a few years back. Apple was a great company between 2007 and 2012. 2013 was when everything started going wrong. It's just not the same company anymore. Today's Apple has trashed much of what earned Apple its previously deserved respect. Leadership is out of touch. There's no balance between profit and product quality/customer care. It's all about Wall Street pandering now.

When Logic X 10.4 came out, it dropped support for El Capitan, the last natively supported OS on my 2009 MacBook Pro (itself a totally arbitrary cut off, since the cheaper 2009 MacBook was still supported!). I do NOT buy into the notion of replacing computers every three years or changing the OS every year.

I installed Sierra as a hack on the abandoned MacBook Pro. So far so good.

I haven't been willing to move to High Sierra. Its APFS has shown countless examples of not being fully tested before public release (yes, some developers used non-public-API features in their code but there were more problem than that and Apple's own software is still broken due to APFS; try clearing your iOS Safari web content beyond iOS 10.3).

Don't even get me started on iOS complaints. But still, there too, I find the alternatives are much worse. Apple still has room to worsen before I feel compelled to abandon that ship. I spent decades with the PC/Windows combo and that means a lot more built-up hate and bitterness towards Microsoft and the PC industry.

[rod_zero]

With Apple you know that they support n-2 with their OS and n-1 with Logic Pro X. And Logic users don’t have to upgrade Logic if the OS still has a year left on it. You just don’t get the lastest features. They’ve made it pretty compelling to keep Logic current.

For me having up to three years is more than enough. I’ve found in the last two years most vendors have lastest MacOS support within 60-120 days after release. Four months isn’t much time to wait. That being said if you have a stable known configuration you should be reasonably good for two years between upgrades.

Hardware on the Mac side is much longer. I recently retired my 2009 MacBook Pro in January. It still ran El Capitan natively. The 10.4 release of Logic was compelling enough for me to move on and get a newer Laptop.

That’s just me.

And Apple users think all that is good. LOL

No we don't think all that is good. We are (or I am, at least) simply finding the Apple stuff to be less enraging than the alternatives.

I moved to Apple computers and Logic from Windows PC and Sonar a few years back. Apple was a great company between 2007 and 2012. 2013 was when everything started going wrong. It's just not the same company anymore. Today's Apple has trashed much of what earned Apple its previously deserved respect. Leadership is out of touch. There's no balance between profit and product quality/customer care. It's all about Wall Street pandering now.

When Logic X 10.4 came out, it dropped support for El Capitan, the last natively supported OS on my 2009 MacBook Pro (itself a totally arbitrary cut off, since the cheaper 2009 MacBook was still supported!). I do NOT buy into the notion of replacing computers every three years or changing the OS every year.

I installed Sierra as a hack on the abandoned MacBook Pro. So far so good.

I haven't been willing to move to High Sierra. Its APFS has shown countless examples of not being fully tested before public release (yes, some developers used non-public-API features in their code but there were more problem than that and Apple's own software is still broken due to APFS; try clearing your iOS Safari web content beyond iOS 10.3).

Don't even get me started on iOS complaints. But still, there too, I find the alternatives are much worse. Apple still has room to worsen before I feel compelled to abandon that ship. I spent decades with the PC/Windows combo and that means a lot more built-up hate and bitterness towards Microsoft and the PC industry.

And what exactly is worse on windows and PC that you are so bitter about? They made new OS that doesn't run on your old system and then release new soft that only works on the new one?

They kept supporting one OS for ten years?

The OS kept running 18 years old software?

The computer was cheap?

My god, those bastards are the worst.

[pekbro]

@Jace-BeOS

You should consider a hackintosh if you don't like windows. It's not hard to do
with a little planning and works great when done right. You can make a helluva
mac that far exceeds anything you can get from them outside the Mac Pro range
for as little 1/10 the cost probably.

Just sayin....

[woggle]

but I am not happy that I can't run my CS6 version of Adobe Audition on win10 and that has put me off buying or "clouding" their products.

Hang on , if Adobe Audition CS6 doesn't support Windows 10, wouldn't that include Photoshop CS6 ? There have been times where I've converted video material with it's video editing feature but of course I use the retail Photoshop CS6 on a pretty much a daily basis with Windows 7 64 Bit...If it doesn't run on Windows 10 then that's news to me.

Not exactly the same thing here, but close: I am running the Adobe Design Premium Suite 5.5 on Win10 for the last few months (mostly PS--Audition is not a part of the suite) with no problems.

have no idea on the other programs but Audition for me does not work under win10, using all the suggestions the net and user groups could offer. That was across two different machines. Very disappointing because Audition is a great editor, much prefer it to SoundForge, but the cloud version is way too expensive for me
Photoshop cloud is cheap

[THE INTRANCER]

have no idea on the other programs but Audition for me does not work under win10, using all the suggestions the net and user groups could offer. That was across two different machines. Very disappointing because Audition is a great editor, much prefer it to SoundForge, but the cloud version is way too expensive for me
Photoshop cloud is cheap

I have the Adobe Production CS2 Suite which I bought 12 years ago for my Uni course (for just £260), and that included Audition. When you run it, it switches (forces) the desktop to run in the style of XP. Not really a big deal with Windows 7 and XP being pretty similar, just forfeiting just the glass transparency and other minor things. I still have Windows 10 on my laptop, but it's rarely ever used, can't remember if it has an XP compatibility mode or not but it's something I'll test out soon. It's always been a pretty sophisticated program that I've not really used all that much but if there's anything I need to look at on exported music productions more closely, it's always nice to have that option.

[yellowmix]

I use Photoshop CC still although I have an alternative that is okay (Affinity) but i need Photoshop for compatibility with others

What kind of compatibility issues are you encountering? Affinity Photo loads and exports PSD's I've worked with. It's been a smooth transition and it took me about a month to let go of Photoshop.

[woggle]

I use Photoshop CC still although I have an alternative that is okay (Affinity) but i need Photoshop for compatibility with others

What kind of compatibility issues are you encountering? Affinity Photo loads and exports PSD's I've worked with. It's been a smooth transition and it took me about a month to let go of Photoshop.

when I first got it I noticed some minor issues (cant remember specifics), and read a review that mentioned something or other, so I haven't used it for any professional work where I have to swap files back and forth between people. But maybe that was just my error / unfamiliarity. Affinity is certainly a fine program and I use it in a casual way.

Have you used Affinity in a professional setting, where others may work from the PSDs?

[I think it is in exporting psd from Photoshop with an embedded raw image layer, adjusting the raw file in Affinity then reopening in photoshop to find the raw layer is now just an image layer ie you can't continue editing the raw file]

[Jace-BeOS]

@Jace-BeOS

You should consider a hackintosh if you don't like windows. It's not hard to do
with a little planning and works great when done right. You can make a helluva
mac that far exceeds anything you can get from them outside the Mac Pro range
for as little 1/10 the cost probably.

Just sayin....

I want nothing more to do with PC builds. I built my own machines numerous times in the past and won't do it again. PC parts compatibility is a kind of voodoo, and the time I've wasted troubleshooting components and their various claims of compatibility, as well as chasing numerous parts warranties, was an annoyance I won't return to. The same goes for the hacks needed to get Mac OS running on PC hardware.

Yes, my MacBook Pro is hackish now, but it was a minimal effort (or I wouldn't have done it).

I like the minimal combinations of parts (and therefore reduced compatibility issues) of Apple computers, even though I don't like Apple's current pathological obsession with thinness.

[Jace-BeOS]

And what exactly is worse on windows and PC that you are so bitter about?

Do you really want me to go on and on about how much I hate the design of Windows from a user's, administrator's, and support person's perspective? There's an entire industry built up around "certifying" people to deal with them. Suffice to say that I have grown an intolerance for the design, function, and behavior of Windows and leave it at that.

Then there's the PC hardware voodoo I mentioned in my other reply just before this one. The last PC I built was built from all recommended parts, supposedly guaranteed compatible... only to find shortly after that that said parts were later considered "problem" components (not to mention the guaranteed compatible memory wasn't actually available on the market in the maximum configuration). Need I mention the Asus Striker Extreme motherboard...?

There are just too many "commodity" PC parts to get any guaranteed-to-work configuration, except maybe unless you buy pre-built and warrantied systems from OEMs, but then you miss out on the supposed benefits of choice and cost reduction in building your own that the PC world is so habitually praised for. I've never experienced the claimed benefits of this.

Not to mention, often the first thing that happens to people on forums when seeking help with bad PCs is they get blamed for incompetence by tech nerds who think that nothing could possibly go wrong for competent techs because they themselves have been lucky. Survivorship bias is strong with that crowd.

[LeVzi]

A lot of interesting reading, so forced upgrades are more common than I thought.

So how do companies like Image Line survive ? FL Studio has progressed massively from it's early days on lifetime unlimited upgrades, so how do they do it ?

Steinberg used to have a flat rate for upgrade from all versions, now unless you stay with it, you pay more. Apple force the user to stay current or it breaks. (From what I read)

Other companies seem to try to adopt this attitude.

tbh It's an attitude i'd like to see stopped. Support doesn't end with upgrades, a company has a responsibility to support it's software / hardware for at least 6 years from point of release (can be fashioned from some consumer regulation here in the UK, but most of these companies are outside UK)

Obviously the answer is vote with your wallet, and believe me I would, if there was a DAW that I liked half as much as Cubase, i'd jump ship.

[pekbro]

I want nothing more to do with PC builds. I built my own machines numerous times in the past and won't do it again. PC parts compatibility is a kind of voodoo, and the time I've wasted troubleshooting components and their various claims of compatibility, as well as chasing numerous parts warranties, was an annoyance I won't return to. The same goes for the hacks needed to get Mac OS running on PC hardware.

Yes, my MacBook Pro is hackish now, but it was a minimal effort (or I wouldn't have done it).

I like the minimal combinations of parts (and therefore reduced compatibility issues) of Apple computers, even though I don't like Apple's current pathological obsession with thinness.

Well, building a hackintosh isn't really that bad, but I get your point.

-Cheers

*Interestingly, it's not quite correct to assume that apple is the only place you can
buy a motherboard configured to run OSX. Boards configured with literally, the very
same hardware components, not just compatibles.

[yellowmix]

Have you used Affinity in a professional setting, where others may work from the PSDs?

[I think it is in exporting psd from Photoshop with an embedded raw image layer, adjusting the raw file in Affinity then reopening in photoshop to find the raw layer is now just an image layer ie you can't continue editing the raw file]

Embedded RAW photos? You're right, Affinity Photo doesn't know how to extract the embedded RAW data and repack it when it exports since PSD is proprietary (and a clusterfuck Adobe can't figure out sometimes). It does have the demosaiced layer from Photoshop and returns it, but it's missing the embedded RAW. If the workflow requires RAW images back then I request that they be linked, and I don't need the RAW file since Photoshop demosaiced it into a representative layer from Camera Raw.