KVR Audio

_al_ · Post by **_al_** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:04 pm

Yeah all fair points! I don't actually consider the zebra square "bad". It's just that sometimes it has the quality of a saw wave, which is why i love using the scatter effect on it. But sometimes when i'm making a low square bass, it sounds almost like a sped up kick drum, it's so raw, so instead of fiddling with it, i just load up zeta

Gamma-UT · Post by **Gamma-UT** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:11 pm

It's a wavetable synth, you can plonk any kind of square wave shape you want into it. All you're really saying is that a up-across-down square that might be in the defaults is too gnarly for some uses. Analogue square waves never look like that - the TB303, for example, barely looks like a square at all.

himalaya · Post by **himalaya** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:19 pm

_al_ wrote:Yeah all fair points! I don't actually consider the zebra square "bad". It's just that sometimes it has the quality of a saw wave, which is why i love using the scatter effect on it. But sometimes when i'm making a low square bass, it sounds almost like a sped up kick drum, it's so raw, so instead of fiddling with it, i just load up zeta

Ok, I understand the sawtooth reference. Maybe you get more of a saw wave if you don't set the 'wave' dial at the correct position? Try a value of 7. Or go to the bottom panel and in the OSC section click on the seventh wave window (from left).

himalaya · Post by **himalaya** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:20 pm

double post

himalaya · Post by **himalaya** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:20 pm

weird double post

_al_ · Post by **_al_** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:28 pm

Gamma-UT wrote:It's a wavetable synth, you can plonk any kind of square wave shape you want into it. All you're really saying is that a up-across-down square that might be in the defaults is too gnarly for some uses. Analogue square waves never look like that - the TB303, for example, barely looks like a square at all.

actually, i think this could be the problem right here. Zeta starts with modelled waves, rather than strict shapes.
also, zeta creates some very nice changes by moving a few sliders, whereas Zebra requires some meticulous point editing

anyway guys, i got things to do. thanks for the help. i'm gonna experiment with zebra a bit more later. maybe i just need to make myself a set of osc presets one day.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:37 pm

_al_ wrote:actually, i think this could be the problem right here. Zeta starts with modelled waves, rather than strict shapes.

erm, no. Z3ta starts with wavetables as well. They're single-cycle though.

himalaya · Post by **himalaya** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:42 pm

_al_ wrote:
actually, i think this could be the problem right here. Zeta starts with modelled waves, rather than strict shapes.
also, zeta creates some very nice changes by moving a few sliders, whereas Zebra requires some meticulous point editing

But there is no problem. I don't understand your refusal to accept it.

Also, what do you mean by 'modelled waves' ? The Z3ta+ waveforms are also wavetable based. They are not 'modelled' like you'd normally associate this term with analog modelling, for example, in U-he's Repro, or FXpansion's Cypher, or NI's Monark, or The Legend....

Don't use the Zeta waves as a reference of how square waves ought to sound.

_al_ · Post by **_al_** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:06 pm

himalaya wrote:
_al_ wrote:
actually, i think this could be the problem right here. Zeta starts with modelled waves, rather than strict shapes.
also, zeta creates some very nice changes by moving a few sliders, whereas Zebra requires some meticulous point editing
But there is no problem. I don't understand your refusal to accept it.

Also, what do you mean by 'modelled waves' ? The Z3ta+ waveforms are also wavetable based. They are not 'modelled' like you'd normally associate this term with analog modelling, for example, in U-he's Repro, or FXpansion's Cypher, or NI's Monark, or The Legend....

Don't use the Zeta waves as a reference of how square waves ought to sound.

seriously? we're really going here?
here's pics of both zeta and zebra
there is no problem with zebra, i've said that more than once. i'm not refusing to accept anything, and have clearly stated why i think zeta gets the sound i'm looking for.

at no point did i say zeta has a proper square wave, and zebra is doing it wrong

and as for using the word "modelled", yeah i just pulled that word out my ass, using it in the same way we model shapes from clay or whatever. it's not a standard square, so to me it's modelled. but please don't lose too much sleep over my usage of the word.

seriously wtf is wrong with people in here

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:17 pm

_al_ wrote:
himalaya wrote:
_al_ wrote:
actually, i think this could be the problem right here. Zeta starts with modelled waves, rather than strict shapes.
also, zeta creates some very nice changes by moving a few sliders, whereas Zebra requires some meticulous point editing
But there is no problem. I don't understand your refusal to accept it.

Also, what do you mean by 'modelled waves' ? The Z3ta+ waveforms are also wavetable based. They are not 'modelled' like you'd normally associate this term with analog modelling, for example, in U-he's Repro, or FXpansion's Cypher, or NI's Monark, or The Legend....

Don't use the Zeta waves as a reference of how square waves ought to sound.
seriously? we're really going here?
here's pics of both zeta and zebra
there is no problem with zebra, i've said that more than once. i'm not refusing to accept anything, and have clearly stated why i think zeta gets the sound i'm looking for.

at no point did i say zeta has a proper square wave, and zebra is doing it wrong

and as for using the word "modelled", yeah i just pulled that word out my ass, using it in the same way we model shapes from clay or whatever. it's not a standard square, so to me it's modelled. but please don't lose too much sleep over my usage of the word.

seriously wtf is wrong with people in here

As others said, there is no problem. You are comparing a Zebra wavetable containing an almost perfect square wave with a z3ta wave that is by no means perfect (and by this I am not implying any kind of inferiority - many analog synths produce waveforms that are quite different from the pure waveforms).

Clearly, the Zebra one will have more overtones (therefore, may sound "harsh" when compared with the z3ta one). But nothing prevents you from using a similar "squarish" mellower wave in Zebra. Just create it. The new version GUI makes this quite easy. You are probably aware that Zebra uses wavetables (not single cycle waves, like z3ta, but wavetables with 16 waves in each). And you can use whatever wave you want. There are tools created to come up with wavetables out of samples, and many wavetables created from pre-existing wavetables in synths like the Waldorf ones, or the Ensoniq ones, the Wavestation, the Prophet VS, etc.

You could download many of these already done wavetables, which may contain equally mellower "square" waves, using the link another poster already published.

EDIT: Just download the "mc Vision Waves", load the "mc Evolver Hold 1" or "mc Evolver Hold 2" and check the waves in those wavetables. You have to first copy the wavetables to the folder Modules > Oscillator in the Zebra2.data folder (wherever it is)

Gamma-UT · Post by **Gamma-UT** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:24 pm

_al_ wrote:seriously wtf is wrong with people in here

Yeah, those people. Trying to help. Screw those suckers.

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:27 pm

_al_, you kind of answered your own question. As an owner of both Zebra 2 and Z3ta+2, I actually agree with you. But then I don't consider Z3ta+2's square wave a square wave. But if that's the sound your looking for, Zebra 2 can create it if you take the time to design the oscillator shape yourself. Of the two synths, Zebra 2 blows Z3ta+2 out of the water on every level. There is no comparison between the two.

himalaya · Post by **himalaya** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:43 pm

Hey al
We are just having a conversation. There is no malice from me. Hey!
I'm just curious and wanted to find out what you mean. We all hear things differently.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:48 pm

_al__you might also find this tool useful, I -think- it still works.

https://sites.google.com/site/wav2zebra2/

It might be a bit of a faff, but if you can get a single-sample recording of the waveform you like from z3ta, it'll convert it into a waveform for zebra.

_al_ · Post by **_al_** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:59 pm

Gamma-UT wrote:
_al_ wrote:seriously wtf is wrong with people in here
Yeah, those people. Trying to help. Screw those suckers.

actually, no.
if you read carefully, you will see how it shifted from helping me, to defending zebra.
even though zebra is my favourite synth and i wouldn't trade it for anything, the moment i say something which the fanboys might think puts it in a bad light (far from my intention), all of a sudden i have a problem with zebra, and i'm accusing Urs of not knowing how to make a square wave.
i mean really, are we not allowed to chat without being analysed and cross referenced?

@WT yeah i know, i literally only use zeta for this one specific thing

@himalaya, ok, but why you accuse me of refusing to accept something? i'm totally lost there

@WR yeah i've used that previously, but it don't give an exact copy. and really it's not worth it for this one little issue

rediscovering zebra2...