KVR Audio

YoungCrocket · Post by **YoungCrocket** » Thu May 03, 2018 4:14 am

Hi everyone,

I have a quick question about how omitting the 5th from chords affects functional harmony. I know that omitting the fifth is most common when dealing with chord extensions, but what about triads? I find the color of bare thirds to be really cool, but I don't know if this would still serve the same harmonic function that a full triad would.

To clarify, I'm asking if a triad (say the 4th of a major scale) would still serve its harmonic function (subdominant in this case) if the fifth was omitted? Or, is the fifth pretty much a necessary ingredient when it comes to defining the harmonic function of triad?

Michael L · Post by **Michael L** » Thu May 03, 2018 5:56 am

I am no expert but I like this question, so perhaps the answer is the musical context of the "function" you refer to. The fifth (also with the third down an octave) opens many harmonic possibilities, if your context is melodies built on those chords. But if you are using just chords in ambient music for example, you might explore progressions of those "really cool bare chords." And as a third way to rationalize what you want to try: complex timbres + simple chords can work better!

whiligo · Post by **whiligo** » Fri May 04, 2018 4:51 pm

in my experience, the listener's ear will sort of "assume" the fifth is there. So, depending on context, it will maintain its harmonic function, but be slightly less stable, enabling you to go in a new direction harmonically. You can potentially use this to insert a harmonic surprise by using subsequent chords to prove the listener's assumptions wrong, which is fun. Now, what was assumed to be a root and a third becomes retroactively part of another chord altogether.

YoungCrocket · Post by **YoungCrocket** » Sat May 05, 2018 3:38 am

Thanks for the replies Michael L and whiligo, much appreciated. I really dig the experimental direction you are both taking with this and I will apply it to my future compositions. Utilizing "bare chords" with complex timbers is a great idea. Surprising the listener by changing the implied chord to a different chord (maybe one with a different harmonic function) is a great idea too. Thanks again! back to the studio for me!

YoungCrocket · Post by **YoungCrocket** » Sat May 05, 2018 3:45 am

One last thing, I've heard of "implied chords" before, and dropping the 5th of a triad may be a good example of an implied chord. I think its something to do with the harmonic series. I tried researching my original question but didn't have much luck. Now that I have some better search terms (implied chords + harmonic series), I will do more research and post again if I find better information. That way this thread will have closure for other people that end up here chasing answers to the same question. If anyone has the info before I post again, feel free to share. Peace!

Michael L · Post by **Michael L** » Sat May 05, 2018 4:23 am

It would be good if you can include some audio to illustrate the results of your unique experiments!

lobanov · Post by **lobanov** » Sat May 05, 2018 5:03 am

A triad will still serve its harmonic function if the fifth was omitted. In classical (4 voice) harmony an omission of fifth degree is more preferable than omission of first degree or third one. The fifth degree is the most amorphous (nor major neither minor) so it's a main candidate for an omission. The first degree is a root, the third degree determines the tonality (major or minor). So, in the classical harmony the structure "root - root - root - third" is very typical.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Mon May 07, 2018 3:02 pm

Besides it being irrelevant to the quality M or m, the {perfect} fifth is the first to go because the harmonic coinciding with it is early in the series (#3) and tends to be pretty apparent already when the fundamental has enough energy going for it.

But, like everything it's a contextual question. The fifth *is* relevant to the perception of augmented or diminished triads.

Analyze works in 'the literature'.

tapper mike · Post by **tapper mike** » Wed May 09, 2018 7:35 pm

Lenny Breau was a highly accomplished fingerstyle musician who studied under the great pianist Bill Evans. The one thing he noticed was that Evans would often left hand comp only using the 3rd and the 7th of the chord while playing melodic passages above on his right hand. Breau adapted this technique for himself. using the lower strings to only play the 3rd and 7th of the chord. Many blues/jazz/country rhythm guitarists will also comp only using the 3rd and 7th of the chord. The bassist is already playing the root so it's not required. As well if the 5th is not defined it gives room for altered scales and passing tones.

Many decades prior to that Freddie Green was the rhythm guitarist for Count Basie. His playing style was the foundation of what was to come in jazz in general and early beboppers such as Charlie Parker's rhythm section and Western Swing.

In smaller ensembles FG would also play the root but tended to avoid the 5th.

In smaller arrangements still where you may only have drums, bass, melodist and rhythm. Once you've established the chord tones on beat one and three you are free to create movement via neighboring(side stepping), passing chords and inversions.

So yeah it's out there.

Omitting the 5th?