KVR Audio

RSL369 · Post by **RSL369** » Mon May 07, 2018 9:22 pm

PurpleSunray wrote:how do you enable ZDT w/o paying the 30$ for the subscription?

So a VST dev creates a product that has 0 downtime by definition (a locally installed software). Than they add crappy copy protection that can fail.. and now the user has to buy a subscription to make sure he can continue to work after it failed?

Are you kidding me?
This bizz is so

It seems that, if you do pay the ZDT subscription fee, your perfectly healthy dongle won't suddenly stop working, as it did to the OP.

mike_the_ranger · Post by **mike_the_ranger** » Mon May 07, 2018 9:23 pm

raysaul wrote:
mike_the_ranger wrote: I'm just tired of writing the same stuff again and again
then don't

yes I should start a ranting thread every day too. That's the kvr spirit...

PurpleSunray · Post by **PurpleSunray** » Mon May 07, 2018 9:34 pm

Not sure what you post about every day, but "works for me" is no solution

So I'm afraid you need to continiue posting "but i have (n) dongels and they all work perfect" forever.. as it is no help or solution or any other kind of usefull info.

RSL369 · Post by **RSL369** » Mon May 07, 2018 9:40 pm

PurpleSunray wrote:Not sure what you post about every day, but "works for me" is no solution

So I'm afraid you need to continiue posting "but i have (n) dongels and they all work perfect" forever.. as it is no help or solution or any other kind of usefull info.

No no, you don't get it; if it works for him, it surely must work for everyone else. If not, it's just a damn KvR spirit.

mgw38 · Post by **mgw38** » Mon May 07, 2018 9:44 pm

PurpleSunray wrote:how do you enable ZDT w/o paying the 30$ for the subscription?

The OP implied that you have to pay the subscription again if the iLok breaks, which is simply not the case. If you have subscribed to ZDT there are no additional subscription or expedience fees.

PurpleSunray wrote:So a VST dev creates a product that has 0 downtime by definition (a locally installed software). Than they add crappy copy protection that can fail.. and now the user has to buy a subscription to make sure he can continue to work after it failed?

You never really bought the software, you licensed it. So technically, the license is the product. It functions based on a licensing system that can be subject to hardware failure. It is perfectly normal that there are costs associated with hardware failures. Ask your trusted computer store next time your hard drive dies.

RSL369 · Post by **RSL369** » Mon May 07, 2018 9:49 pm

mgw38 wrote:It is perfectly normal that there are costs associated with hardware failures. Ask your trusted computer store next time your hard drive dies.

It is perfectly normal that a hard drive, which works its ass of daily, eventually fails.
Dongle, on the other hand...
Especially if perfectly maintained, as is the case with the OP.

I wonder if it would fail so suddenly had he bothered to pay the ZDT subscription.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Mon May 07, 2018 9:58 pm

So if you enable ZDT beforehand no extra fees at all?

mike_the_ranger · Post by **mike_the_ranger** » Mon May 07, 2018 10:03 pm

raysaul wrote:
PurpleSunray wrote:Not sure what you post about every day, but "works for me" is no solution

So I'm afraid you need to continiue posting "but i have (n) dongels and they all work perfect" forever.. as it is no help or solution or any other kind of usefull info.
No no, you don't get it; if it works for him, it surely must work for everyone else. If not, it's just a damn KvR spirit.

no no no, if it doesn't work for 1 then the whole system is corrupt and it shouldn't work for anyone else

RSL369 · Post by **RSL369** » Mon May 07, 2018 10:04 pm

mike_the_ranger wrote:
raysaul wrote:
PurpleSunray wrote:Not sure what you post about every day, but "works for me" is no solution

So I'm afraid you need to continiue posting "but i have (n) dongels and they all work perfect" forever.. as it is no help or solution or any other kind of usefull info.
No no, you don't get it; if it works for him, it surely must work for everyone else. If not, it's just a damn KvR spirit.
no no no, if it doesn't work for 1 then the whole system is corrupt and it shouldn't work for anyone else

that's the spirit

mgw38 · Post by **mgw38** » Mon May 07, 2018 10:09 pm

aMUSEd wrote:So if you enable ZDT beforehand no extra fees at all?

Mostly no if you have ZDT and TLC (which is free with ZDT but needs to be enabled by the user).

I’m not sure about the license recovery fee. It seems that this fee is for analysing the broken iLok. Since the OP did not have ZDT enabled, the dongle was never really synchronised with the ZDT system. But the OP would get a free iLok in return.

PurpleSunray · Post by **PurpleSunray** » Mon May 07, 2018 10:11 pm

You never really bought the software, you licensed it. So technically, the license is the product. It functions based on a licensing system that can be subject to hardware failure. It is perfectly normal that there are costs associated with hardware failures. Ask your trusted computer store next time your hard drive dies.

I bought a Windows, Ableton, Visual Studio, Office, x plugin ... licenses ane they all continue to work if my hardware breaks. With zero additional cost. If my HDD breaks i just install it all again. Ofc i need to pay for broken HDD, but that is hardware that is required to run the PC.
iLok however is not required. It binds a piece of software to a piece of hardware for no reason.

@VST devs, go license denuvo and drop iLok plz. It seems to be harder to crack than iLok, there is no unecesary hardware involved and no ripoff bizz on the wallet of your customers

perpetual3 · Post by **perpetual3** » Tue May 08, 2018 1:35 am

To me, it’s clear the ILok has ZERO value proposition for the customer - despite the fact that it’s on a key and technically portable.

To me, it’s also clear that ILOK dominates if not entirely controls the encryption/decryption copy protection market and, because it does so, engages in price gouging. $50 for a USB key? That’s more than I paid for some great plugins, 25% of the new Uno Synth cost, a great night out, etc. Charging for temporary licences? Licenses are generated quickly.

I’m sure the developers feel that it’s less money lost paying PACE but they don’t have many choices either. The value proposition to the developer exists only because of a lack of competition. This is classic rentier/monopolist behavior.

I have issues with the idea of licensing rather than ownership. These ideas originated from real property. I resent the idea that technically, a developer can revoke my license and I lose the product AND the money. I doubt that’s going to happen (to me) and accept it as the cost of doing business.

Urs Heckman sounds like he had a great alternative, but I don’t understand copy protection well enough.

Finally, the writings on the wall for software. IP protections can’t withstand the unstoppable force of the Internet, it’s neverendong growth and demand for bandwidth and data, and the increasing access to, well, everything. The solution that comes to my mind is to make any willful, intentional IP infringement a serious crime and civil offense, with the burden on the alleged infringer to prove their innocence. That, or do like Apple and the iPhone and make everything a walled garden where cracks are more trouble then their worth. Or do like Apple and make software cheap enough to remove the incentive. Or make a payment plan so the upfront cost isn’t so high.

Anyway, every solution involves a trade off, and to get back to the original issue, PACE leverages their monopolist position to the detriment of the the consumer. In other words, we’re sh!t outta luck, and they know it.

Gregorius · Post by **Gregorius** » Tue May 08, 2018 1:43 am

perpetual3 wrote:I have issues with the idea of licensing rather than ownership. These ideas originated from real property. I resent the idea that technically, a developer can revoke my license and I lose the product AND the money.

In theory any developer can blacklist your license in its product and your done. Either coded into it or even within the process of homecalling.

perpetual3 wrote:Urs Heckman sounds like he had a great alternative, but I don’t understand copy protection well enough.

He uses a key file... ...like maybe 80% of the audio plugin developers too. 1 leaked license and the plugin got cracked.

Aloysius · Post by **Aloysius** » Tue May 08, 2018 1:44 am

I'd rather be a hammer than an ILok Rip-Off Scammer

perpetual3 · Post by **perpetual3** » Tue May 08, 2018 1:49 am

Aloysius wrote:I'd rather be a hammer than an ILok Rip-Off Scammer

“I need a hammer, a hammer, a hammer, a hammer, to hammer them down.”