Hi,
I took advantage of the Sonic Synth Group Buy. I thought that I would write a review on the quality of the sounds, etc.
IN USE:
I am using the soundset within Sampletank 2. The effects that are available in ST2 are of VERY high quality. The reverbs sound great, and the amp simulation is BEAUTIFUL. The problem in regards to the Sampletank 2 engine and some of the sounds in the Sonic Synth bundle is that if you try to select them, the program will crash. If you steer clear of these sounds then you'll be ok. I saw in a previous post that Squids was going release a disk that fixed this, but as of yet nothing has materialized.
Most samples load fairly quickly, but some sounds take as long as 3 or more seconds to load. The sounds are listed by category which make the specific sounds that you are trying to find relatively easy.
Sounds:
The sounds are a bit of a mixed bag. I remember reading the Sound on Sound review of Sample Tank 2xl and them not having a lot of good to say about the product. Of couse the sounds that come with Sample Tank and Sonic Synth are different, the both have the same apparent weakness: inconsistency in the sounds.
While I can't say that the sounds are poor as a general rule of thumb, there are indeed some low areas throughout the sample set. The GOOD thing is that there are some high areas that help to even tings out a bit.
These Virtual Romplers are meant to replace your garden variety workstation and this is what I will attemt to draw a comparison. I will list various sound categories and give you my overall impression.
Pianos: The acoustic piano's are very decent. They equal the acoustic piano sounds in my Motif ES and totally bury the piano in my Triton. The electronic piano sounds seem to be of lower overall quality, and there is very little selection in regards to Wurlitzer, Rhodes and various electronic piano sounds.
Guitar: The overall quality of the acoustic guitar patches is of middle quality. One of the things that you are starting to see is more expressive programming in instruments like the Motif. For example when you hit the key harder, the sound might change timbre, or it may add an extra layer of sound that makes the sound more real. I noticed very little advanced programming of this type in Sonic Synth.
The core samples for the electronic guitars are poor, but CAN be saved with the excellent guitar effects in the Sample Tank 2 engine. The various tone cabinents and the distortion effecs help take these marginal samples over the top.
Synth Sounds:
This is probably the weakest area of the Sonic Synth souns. They seem to be poorly sampled, almost as if they were sampled from Native Instruments Absynth through some very weedy filters. None of the synth sounds demonstrate the kind of movement and sheen you'll find in a Triton. Most of the sounds seem to have been sampled with the resonance turned all the way to the maximum from the source instrument and run trough very low quality filters.
Bass Sounds:
The bass sounds were pretty good. There is a patch which I beleive is called Jason's upright, and it's very usable in a mix. There are a few acoustic bass sounds that are very good, and there a some slap bass sounds that are marginal.
Strings:
This is another low area for Sonic Synth and apparently for sample tank also. Most of the string sounds suffer from the same type of high resonance that the synth sounds suffer from. There is very little in the way of solo instruments as most of the sounds are the "group strings" variety. The strings sound very "thin" and weedy. I was really hoping that the multi-megabyte samples available would really make my heart melt, but unfortunately I was let down.
Ethnic Instruments:
What is here is of good quality. Very small selection of sounds on hand for this variety. I hope that Squids and company release an ethnic sound module (if they haven't already).
Brass/Woodwinds:
Another weak area for Sonic Synth. But to be fair, most synth fall flat on their face when it comes to brass souns. The woodwinds seem to be covered, but are just barely shy of being believable.
Drums:
The drum patches seems to be built off a few core samples and have different effects applied to increase the number of patches apparent. The drums are very "low Fi" in sound, which can be excellent depending upon the type of music you write. The acoustic drum sounds aren't the big "In Your Face" acoustic drums that you'll find included in Plug Sounds USB Drums software.
In the Mix:
This is where the Sonic Synth Sounds really start to earn their keep. They DO sit in the mix very well. I own a Yamaha EX5 and it is probably one of the fattest instruments in terms of synth power that I have ever owned, but it sometimes overpowers everthing else in a song, and Sonic Synth doesn't suffer from this.
Overall Impression:
I for one am very happy with the forward movement to having a rompler inside your computer. I love the ability to render a song to audio without having to go through the hassle of recording each synth's part to an audio track. You save a ton of hard drive space this way, and you save a ton of time.
If I had to pay $299 for sonic synth, would I have purchased it? No. Would I recommend someone pick up Sonic Synth for the sub $120 group price...Absolutely! There are a log of good/great sounds onboard, but not really anything that will knock you off your feet.
Compared to the BIG BOYS:
In my studio I have a Roland XP-30, Wurlitzer 200a, Korg Triton, Yamaha Motif ES, Yamaha EX5, Yamaha AN1x, Kawai K5000 and an Alesis QS6. I will choose the Roland XP-30 (which can be purchased secondhand on ebay for around $450) to directly compare to the Sonic Synth Sounds.
In almost every area, the Roland dominates the Sonic Synth sounds by a fairly wide margin. The XP30 came with the entire JV soundset, as well as the Sessions board, the Techno Board and the Orchestra Board. The Sonic Synth dwarfs the XP30 in overall size of samples. I beleive one of the reasons why hardware synthesizers still have a sonic advantage is that the people who are responsible for capturing/sampling the sounds just have more experience than recently formed Virtual Market. That's why you can take a Motif with a sample set 1/10th the size of Sonic Synth and still have superior sounds in most categories.
Where a hardware synth pales in regards to Sonic Synth is in being able to harness all of the power of today's personal computers.
In closing, I would say that that there are 3 main areas that need to be fixed before Sonic Synth/Sample Tank can be considered peers of the Big Three.
1. Samples: The source samples have to be of the highest quality. Source samples that are of low quality should be left out! I would rather have 2 mb of spectacular sounds than have 200MB of marginal sounds (I'm not saying that Sonic Synth is filled with marginal sounds)
2. Reliability: Choosing sounds souldn't make your sequencer crash. Errors like these should be resolved and fixed in days, not weeks. If you software has major issues, allow customers a refund within a certain window of time. Remember that we PURCHASED your product with the hope that it would work as you TOLD us it would. Have a high degree of urgency in getting bugs ironed out.
3. Programming: Make sounds that inspire imagination and inspire you to write beautiful magic. Make sounds that move and sounds that respond dynamically to the musician's style. Make the most of those multiple gigabytes of storage on our hard disks. Don't be afraid to leave out sounds that just don't cut it.
Thanks for reading my review!
My Sonic Synth Review
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- KVRer
- 2 posts since 16 Sep, 2004
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- Sonic Reality Head Chef
- 8566 posts since 11 Mar, 2002 from Florida
Nice meaty review. Too much for me to comment on each section, plus some of it is just your opinion which even if I differ in mine of course you are entitled to yours so I can leave some things alone (really? Squids? Never!)... but if you don't mind, let me pick and choose a few things I feel compelled to comment on. (uh oh! Squids mega post coming... but tamer.... just as long though 
)
First, you have some of the same hardware keyboards I have. Nice set up!
This comment was ironic:
"I beleive one of the reasons why hardware synthesizers still have a sonic advantage is that the people who are responsible for capturing/sampling the sounds just have more experience than recently formed Virtual Market. That's why you can take a Motif with a sample set 1/10th the size of Sonic Synth and still have superior sounds in most categories."
In this case, the experience I have in the recently formed virtual market IS from years supplying samples and/or programming synths including the Motif rack and ES for Yamaha as well as some stuff for Roland and Alesis in the past (a lot of vintage stuff but also bass, choirs, drums etc.). But, that doesn't take away from your impression of the difference which are subjective anyway. You may like the way a sound is done in a particular synth vs. another. I do too which is why I also keep a variety of synths around (not to mention as controllers).
Your review is long but then in some areas it seems very generalized, like your comment about the "synths" in Sonic Synth. They are not samples of Absynth by the way (it didn't even exist when we made this I don't think). The quality of them is the same level of sampling we do on anything else in the package. They're not all resonant either. There are so many different ones that it is tough to generalize like that IMO.
Everything is even more subjective so I imagine that there are strengths and weaknesses for each person when there is a big MIX of sounds like a workstation usually is. I don't know anyone who likes every patch of a workstation synth. In fact, even on the same hardware synths that I have and love like you I probably only like about 10% of the actual presets. The rest I like only because of what I can do with it.
The last thing I wanted to say was that this product was designed for ST1. It doesn't crash ST1. The group buy bundle was a special product bundle for a very exceptional price. We offered the ST2 LE as part of the bundle as something meant to be advantageous since it isn't otherwise available with an ST2 LE. In fact, now it isn't otherwise available at all (and on next Monday it will officially be out of the system and that is the end of that). But, since it wasn't designed for the ST2 LE when we discovered that some sounds were crashing it we realized it was going to take some work to fix that. We will have that as soon as we can. In fact, not only were we fixing it but actually putting together a variety of other sounds on the disc fixing and showing some of the other ST sounds too. I suppose we could offer one the option of getting that OR the ST1 LE that most Sonic Synth 1 users had for years happily at $299.
Another option is to experiment with a trick to do a downloadable update though. This would certainly be faster (although not as much fun as getting a CD with all of the extra sounds but... because of comments like this it makes me want to fix the problem first and foremost and any kind of freebie stuff is really secondary).
One last thing, some of the comments you made in your review I do agree with such as comparing the acoustic guitar dynamics and expression in SS1 vs. the Motif. The Motif is great on this as is the newer Roland synths. That slide up at the high velocity and the strum mutes etc. I like that stuff too. So, there is some of that sort of thing in Sonik Synth 2. In fact, a lot of the things that you felt were shortcomings are addressed in Sonik Synth 2. It is sort of the next generation and a lot closer to what those hardware workstations sound like and more. Remember that Sonic Synth 1 was made in 2000-2001. Sonik Synth 2 was made in 2002-2004 and made for a more powerful DSP engine. Also, luckily, if an SS1 group buyer wanted SS2 the upgrade price ends up making it the same price together as just buying Sonik Synth 2 alone (except that you ALSO get all of the SS1 and other library sounds plus the ST2 LE which can play other ST sounds you may download for FREE).
What I mean is. Sonik Synth 2's price is $399. Sonic Synth 1 group buy bundle is $109 + SS2 upgrade will be $199. which equals the same price as a good discount on Sonik Synth 2 straight (without an upgrade). So, it could be considered a non-penalty stepping stone to the ultimate workstation synth in software (at least that is how we are intending it to be).
Anyway, it is always great to see someone reviewing at this length. It gives us at least your feedback and other people your POV. We of course would love everyone to love everything but we know that's not possible. However, having worked for a while now on SS2 I think you would really like it.
)First, you have some of the same hardware keyboards I have. Nice set up!
This comment was ironic:"I beleive one of the reasons why hardware synthesizers still have a sonic advantage is that the people who are responsible for capturing/sampling the sounds just have more experience than recently formed Virtual Market. That's why you can take a Motif with a sample set 1/10th the size of Sonic Synth and still have superior sounds in most categories."
In this case, the experience I have in the recently formed virtual market IS from years supplying samples and/or programming synths including the Motif rack and ES for Yamaha as well as some stuff for Roland and Alesis in the past (a lot of vintage stuff but also bass, choirs, drums etc.). But, that doesn't take away from your impression of the difference which are subjective anyway. You may like the way a sound is done in a particular synth vs. another. I do too which is why I also keep a variety of synths around (not to mention as controllers).
Your review is long but then in some areas it seems very generalized, like your comment about the "synths" in Sonic Synth. They are not samples of Absynth by the way (it didn't even exist when we made this I don't think). The quality of them is the same level of sampling we do on anything else in the package. They're not all resonant either. There are so many different ones that it is tough to generalize like that IMO.
Everything is even more subjective so I imagine that there are strengths and weaknesses for each person when there is a big MIX of sounds like a workstation usually is. I don't know anyone who likes every patch of a workstation synth. In fact, even on the same hardware synths that I have and love like you I probably only like about 10% of the actual presets. The rest I like only because of what I can do with it.
The last thing I wanted to say was that this product was designed for ST1. It doesn't crash ST1. The group buy bundle was a special product bundle for a very exceptional price. We offered the ST2 LE as part of the bundle as something meant to be advantageous since it isn't otherwise available with an ST2 LE. In fact, now it isn't otherwise available at all (and on next Monday it will officially be out of the system and that is the end of that). But, since it wasn't designed for the ST2 LE when we discovered that some sounds were crashing it we realized it was going to take some work to fix that. We will have that as soon as we can. In fact, not only were we fixing it but actually putting together a variety of other sounds on the disc fixing and showing some of the other ST sounds too. I suppose we could offer one the option of getting that OR the ST1 LE that most Sonic Synth 1 users had for years happily at $299.
Another option is to experiment with a trick to do a downloadable update though. This would certainly be faster (although not as much fun as getting a CD with all of the extra sounds but... because of comments like this it makes me want to fix the problem first and foremost and any kind of freebie stuff is really secondary).
One last thing, some of the comments you made in your review I do agree with such as comparing the acoustic guitar dynamics and expression in SS1 vs. the Motif. The Motif is great on this as is the newer Roland synths. That slide up at the high velocity and the strum mutes etc. I like that stuff too. So, there is some of that sort of thing in Sonik Synth 2. In fact, a lot of the things that you felt were shortcomings are addressed in Sonik Synth 2. It is sort of the next generation and a lot closer to what those hardware workstations sound like and more. Remember that Sonic Synth 1 was made in 2000-2001. Sonik Synth 2 was made in 2002-2004 and made for a more powerful DSP engine. Also, luckily, if an SS1 group buyer wanted SS2 the upgrade price ends up making it the same price together as just buying Sonik Synth 2 alone (except that you ALSO get all of the SS1 and other library sounds plus the ST2 LE which can play other ST sounds you may download for FREE).
What I mean is. Sonik Synth 2's price is $399. Sonic Synth 1 group buy bundle is $109 + SS2 upgrade will be $199. which equals the same price as a good discount on Sonik Synth 2 straight (without an upgrade). So, it could be considered a non-penalty stepping stone to the ultimate workstation synth in software (at least that is how we are intending it to be).
Anyway, it is always great to see someone reviewing at this length. It gives us at least your feedback and other people your POV. We of course would love everyone to love everything but we know that's not possible. However, having worked for a while now on SS2 I think you would really like it.
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- KVRist
- 293 posts since 18 Jul, 2003
I also ordered the group buy and just got around to installing it tonight (haven't been working in the studio for a while). I thought it was odd that the install was only 1.3 GB, but required 4 disks and the system requirements state 2 GB of disk space. Is the 1.3 GB final install image correct or did something go wrong in my install? Squids, can you answer this?
I'm really looking forward to checking this out as well as the new Sonik Synth 2 Free demo version...
Thanks!
Matthew
I'm really looking forward to checking this out as well as the new Sonik Synth 2 Free demo version...
Thanks!
Matthew
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- Sonic Reality Head Chef
- 8566 posts since 11 Mar, 2002 from Florida
It is 4 full discs so it is over 2 gigs. If you really are only showing 1.3 then it didn't all install. You may want to delete the sounds and just reinstall them all using the installers starting with disc 1.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 2 posts since 16 Sep, 2004
Thanks for the response Squids.
I look forward to getting Sonic Synth 2 and will post a review of that also!
Regarding my statement that the "virtual market" has less experience than the hardware market, I think it's important that I clarify it a bit.
If I worked for a lemonade company for 15 years and then decided to one day open my own lemonaide stand, I take with me the experience of 15 years of whatever my job functions were, not 15 years of everything involved in making and producing and selling lemonade.
One of the things that set a lot of the virtual instruments apart from the newer workstations is that they have better quality control all around (recording the samples, hiring the best players, using the best equipment to capture the samples, holding the sound programmers to a high standard).
You were very correct to state tht most of us don't like all of the presets on a particular synth and I totally agree with you. There are several presets on my Motif that I would never use due to the style of music I am currently writing. But in the same line, there are few patches on the Motif that I feel are poorly sampled/programmed. There is a difference.
In relation to the sounds that crash Sample Tank 2, I completely understand that these sounds were not originally designed for Sample Tank 2, but shouldn't they be compatible from the get go (like the majority of the Sonic Synth sounds are). I would LOVE to have new sounds on a disc plus a fix of the old sounds that didn't work correctly, but if these new sounds would cause a delay in getting the software/sounds running like they should I would rather have what I purchased working correctly quickly.
I don't intend to sound ungrateful as I think this is a wonderful gesture by your company, but when you really think about it, your customers didn't know they were buying a product that didn't work correctly (albiet only in Sample Tank 2) with the knowledge they would get more sounds and a fix later. They thought that the software was going to work out of the box; period.
Squids, have you guys ever thought about having a satisfaction guarantee regarding your product. I'm specifically thinking about Sonic Synth 2. Also, do you feel that the sounds that are in sonic synth 1 are closer in quality to ST 1 or ST 2. Are the sounds in SS2 more expressive than those in ST2?
Thanks
spiderkhan
I look forward to getting Sonic Synth 2 and will post a review of that also!
Regarding my statement that the "virtual market" has less experience than the hardware market, I think it's important that I clarify it a bit.
If I worked for a lemonade company for 15 years and then decided to one day open my own lemonaide stand, I take with me the experience of 15 years of whatever my job functions were, not 15 years of everything involved in making and producing and selling lemonade.
One of the things that set a lot of the virtual instruments apart from the newer workstations is that they have better quality control all around (recording the samples, hiring the best players, using the best equipment to capture the samples, holding the sound programmers to a high standard).
You were very correct to state tht most of us don't like all of the presets on a particular synth and I totally agree with you. There are several presets on my Motif that I would never use due to the style of music I am currently writing. But in the same line, there are few patches on the Motif that I feel are poorly sampled/programmed. There is a difference.
In relation to the sounds that crash Sample Tank 2, I completely understand that these sounds were not originally designed for Sample Tank 2, but shouldn't they be compatible from the get go (like the majority of the Sonic Synth sounds are). I would LOVE to have new sounds on a disc plus a fix of the old sounds that didn't work correctly, but if these new sounds would cause a delay in getting the software/sounds running like they should I would rather have what I purchased working correctly quickly.
I don't intend to sound ungrateful as I think this is a wonderful gesture by your company, but when you really think about it, your customers didn't know they were buying a product that didn't work correctly (albiet only in Sample Tank 2) with the knowledge they would get more sounds and a fix later. They thought that the software was going to work out of the box; period.
Squids, have you guys ever thought about having a satisfaction guarantee regarding your product. I'm specifically thinking about Sonic Synth 2. Also, do you feel that the sounds that are in sonic synth 1 are closer in quality to ST 1 or ST 2. Are the sounds in SS2 more expressive than those in ST2?
Thanks
spiderkhan