The aliasing thread

[Markleford]

I agree, but on the other hand, we can also have a superb song being craped out by not using some decent interpolation too.

True, of course. It's always a judgment call, and it always varies between genres or even between songs.

And I can admit to the wisdom of 9b0's quote, but I've never been one to worry too awful much about dynamic range and whatnot. Theoretically, "you know it when you hear it", but sometimes it just doesn't matter. I've gotten chills from shitty quality Charlie Parker live recordings. Would have I been more impressed if they were made in a 24/96 studio environment today?

Who knows. Sometimes the dirt is part of the charm.

But don't take this as any judgment on your metrics page. It still has its place, though its relevance will vary from person to person. I think the smartest people in this thread were the ones that said "uh, whatever" and went back to making music!

Yes, excited enough for a lawsuit and publicly talk about taking a site down It's called harassment, though. I'm sorry for William fans, but that's just wrong.

Well, perhaps as wrong as you having a bit of fun by baiting him throughout the thread. That whole "I was going to take it down, but decided not to after what you said to Rene" thing was merely you lording your power over him.

A bit of "neener-neener", if you will.

So far as "harassment", everyone knows that getting a website taken down is impossible if the religious right or child pornography is not involved. I can't fathom you actually being threatened be this. Aren't you just using that as a justification for poking at him some more while you put on your "I'm The Righteous Victim Here" t-shirt?

Seems that you should've pulled out the eye-rollicon earlier and just gone on with your day. Is it really worth anyone's additional time to keep back and forth on this bickering? I think there is more than one party at fault in this (not that I'm innocent in this re: this post).

I know William f**ked up. You know William f**ked up. William knows he f**ked up. Now it's up to you to be the bigger man and stop kicking him while he's down.

And make some damn music, everyone!

- m

[LlunaSol]

it's also clear that the test comparison that started that thread would had been a great thing coming from an independent 3rd party, which would have add a touch of real fair play

What are you talking about? This is a strict audio analysis report. Something like "fair play" doesn't exist, no matter who will make those tests.

First, I'm freely talking my opinion , the same than you. And second the audio report is not strict since is just taking care of one single aspect, and being true itself (well maybe), it's not more revealing than its statement itself, it doesn't give any real idea about objective quality on every listed product, and on that sense could drive wrong impressions on less experienced users (and that's only a shy opinion with no need to be debated). Every report can be fair or not, but what is true is that you are not an independent source.

But don't worry, george, you look too excited on defending the truth of your report, I just was commenting my impression not writing The Law. I wrote a single post with no need to be replied

It looks to me as if anyone could express here an opinion without being stricly replied

[george]

And I can admit to the wisdom of 9b0's quote, but I've never been one to worry too awful much about dynamic range and whatnot. Theoretically, "you know it when you hear it", but sometimes it just doesn't matter. I've gotten chills from shitty quality Charlie Parker live recordings. Would have I been more impressed if they were made in a 24/96 studio environment today?

Of course, the composer, musician or engineer fully decides the relevancy of the interpolation.

Who knows. Sometimes the dirt is part of the charm.

I agree. Who knows. But let the user be aware of what aliasing is and then let him decide.

But don't take this as any judgment on your metrics page. It still has its place, though its relevance will vary from person to person. I think the smartest people in this thread were the ones that said "uh, whatever" and went back to making music!

Thanks, regarding the "uh, whatever" I disagree considering this thread has managed to be 19 pages long

Well, perhaps as wrong as you having a bit of fun by baiting him throughout the thread. That whole "I was going to take it down, but decided not to after what you said to Rene" thing was merely you lording your power over him.

I can tell you it wasn't fun to me. Maybe you had?

So far as "harassment", everyone knows that getting a website taken down is impossible if the religious right or child pornography is not involved. I can't fathom you actually being threatened be this. Aren't you just using that as a justification for poking at him some more while you put on your "I'm The Righteous Victim Here" t-shirt?

I don't need to justify any harassments. All the fuss was about:
1. Publishing information about the interpolation quality of a _marketed_ product.
2. Developer being upset because it shows REAL results according to the guidelines, not scoring as high as other products who excel in THAT purpose.
3. Harassment to remove the images and files.
4. Negative answer. It won't matter anyways since a new version will be released soon.

Seems that you should've pulled out the eye-rollicon earlier and just gone on with your day. Is it really worth anyone's additional time to keep back and forth on this bickering? I think there is more than one party at fault in this (not that I'm innocent in this re: this post).

FYI you seem to forget William tried in several ocasions to discredit this research by making his own analysis. But you know what? He didn't left any trace about it since he has edited the vast mayority of his posts. Why? I don't know.

And make some damn music, everyone!

Best advice. Cheers.

[george]

it's also clear that the test comparison that started that thread would had been a great thing coming from an independent 3rd party, which would have add a touch of real fair play

What are you talking about? This is a strict audio analysis report. Something like "fair play" doesn't exist, no matter who will make those tests.

First, I'm freely talking my opinion , the same than you.

There is a big difference: my opinion has got hours of research and yours is a little comment about how "fair" is it.

And second the audio report is not strict since is just taking care of one single aspect, and being true itself (well maybe), it's not more revealing than its statement itself, it doesn't give any real idea about objective quality on every listed product, and on that sense could drive wrong impressions on less experienced users (and that's only a shy opinion with no need to be debated).

Yes, no need to be debated since this opinion has been repeated over and over in this thread.

Every report can be fair or not, but what is true is that you are not an independent source.

I'm making available the information generated by a computer, following the same guidelines and conditions over all the products, so I don't believe that discredits the work in any way.

But don't worry, george, you look too excited on defending the truth of your report, I just was commenting my impression not writing The Law. I wrote a single post with no need to be replied

It looks to me as if anyone could express here an opinion without being stricly replied

I'm not excited about this, but considering your statement about my strict replies, keep in mind how many hours of work are put on the sampler comparison page. I know, it is nothing compared to the time a programmer spent to make the best realtime algorythm possible for the joy of the musicians, but still.

[Robert Randolph]

When the subject becomes old and tired.. nothing new left to say.... people invariably start with the he-said/she-said quoting. Look at any other thread on a forum that supports the quote feature.... A few pages and it's information, after that it's an ego battle.

get over it damnit... for goodness sakes.

[Sicklecell666]

When the subject becomes old and tired.. nothing new left to say.... people invariably start with the he-said/she-said quoting. Look at any other thread on a forum that supports the quote feature.... A few pages and it's information, after that it's an ego battle.

get over it damnit... for goodness sakes.

what he said..

[Markleford]

FYI you seem to forget William tried in several ocasions to discredit this research by making his own analysis.

Oh, I didn't forget. And I don't really have to lend credence to his assertions, either.

However, I do have the ability to feel for the guy while also not claiming he was in the right. I've dug myself deeper into a hole on message boards before based solely on pride or a bad week at the office, and I imagine many people have.

So I certainly didn't forget. But I *can* forgive, especially when the party in question backs off and admits he spun out of control.

I just hate the hatin'!

But you know what? He didn't left any trace about it since he has edited the vast mayority of his posts. Why? I don't know.

Why? Regret, of course. Though most would agree that such an action is a bit over the top.

But that's why we're still reading the thread after so many pages: drama!

- m

[Robert Randolph]

When the subject becomes old and tired.. nothing new left to say.... people invariably start with the he-said/she-said quoting. Look at any other thread on a forum that supports the quote feature.... A few pages and it's information, after that it's an ego battle.

get over it damnit... for goodness sakes.

what he said..

what he said...

[Sicklecell666]

Hypocracy is a favorite tactic of The Wretched..

I'll be discrete but one agitant Dev in this thread wouldn't see my business if my child's life depended on it..

[Robert Randolph]

Hypocracy is a favorite tactic of The Wretched..

I'll be discrete but one agitant Dev in this thread wouldn't see my business if my child's life depended on it..

Only dev in this thread that will see my business (or returning business) is bigtick

[autloc]

I didn't see Urs sling any mud. Don't let the general negativity let you tar too many people with the same brush.

[_niko_]

I didn't see Urs sling any mud. Don't let the general negativity let you tar too many people with the same brush.

very true!
Still I think, seeing how the big boys (kontakt, halion, exs24, btw why no giga?) all did pretty badly in that test, and these are propably the soft samplers most used in commercial productions, I can't help to think that this thread, though technically interesting, has a 'how anal can you get' touch (preparing flamesuit )...

Niko

[ionized]

Why tar any of them? OK - so things got a little out of control. William apologized. George was pretty civil (I've been irritated at him before but he has definitely improved). I think they all have some valid points. All three make very good products and have my respect for their abilities. We all screw up from time to time. I like seeing these guys being passionate about their work!

And I would still like to know how SampleTank (& DS-404) do at this same test. I was hoping someone else who knows what they are doing could do this. I'm not trying to dodge helping out, but I've never done this before. I'm still pretty new here and am just trying to learn how things work.

[autloc]

oh, i dunno __niko__... there are only so many objective tests you can perform on a sampler, and this one seemed pretty good to me. of course it doesn't tell you about the overall sound quality or useability, but it certainly told us something (though it would really help to find some other tests to complement it). since the resampling occurs first thing in the signal chain, it really is pretty fundamental -- no matter what happens after the sample playback (filters, mods, whatever) the colouration from the aliasing is there, once it's there.

i really would like to see more tests on hardware samplers (a3k, etc..). i'm honestly not too surprised that kontakt did so poorly - i like kontakt, but it's always struck me as a bit "thick" - and that's sometimes made me miss my a3k. is that just nostalgia speaking, or does the a3k have better interpolation algorithms? i'd love to know.

[george]

i really would like to see more tests on hardware samplers (a3k, etc..). i'm honestly not too surprised that kontakt did so poorly - i like kontakt, but it's always struck me as a bit "thick" - and that's sometimes made me miss my a3k. is that just nostalgia speaking, or does the a3k have better interpolation algorithms? i'd love to know.

http://www.simonv.com/music/quality/
http://www.maz-sound.com/index.php?show=mpcs&mpc_id=34

More aliasing tests. SimonV covers a3k.