Why are DAW version updates so upsetting?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
festeringheap
KVRist
327 posts since 7 Mar, 2011

Post Wed May 23, 2018 6:47 am

Chapelle wrote:I think that most of the complaints are fake. They are written by people who are hired by a DAW company to post negative comments about competitors.
So, following your logic, there could also be a bunch of ringers on forums pumping the amazing qualities of DAWs, synth plugins and FX plugins...

Zexila
KVRAF
3089 posts since 18 Mar, 2008

Re: Why are DAW version updates so upsetting?

Post Wed May 23, 2018 7:10 am

v1o wrote:Why are DAW version updates so upsetting?
Expectations.
v1o wrote:It's like we've became so attached to our DAWs that we all have a sense of entitlement.
We spend so much time in it, investing time and money, companies are investing also to get us attached to them, really no wonder we feel that way.
This entire forum is wading through predictions, opinions, barely formed thoughts, drama, and whining. If you don't enjoy that, why are you here? :D ShawnG

Zexila
KVRAF
3089 posts since 18 Mar, 2008

Re: Why are DAW version updates so upsetting?

Post Wed May 23, 2018 7:13 am

Chapelle wrote:I think that most of the complaints are fake. They are written by people who are hired by a DAW company to post negative comments about competitors.
How do I sing up for this, DAW companies PM me, I could trash other DAW's on KVR for you. :hihi:
This entire forum is wading through predictions, opinions, barely formed thoughts, drama, and whining. If you don't enjoy that, why are you here? :D ShawnG

Chapelle
KVRian
1057 posts since 28 Dec, 2007

Re: Why are DAW version updates so upsetting?

Post Wed May 23, 2018 9:23 am

festeringheap wrote:So, following your logic, there could also be a bunch of ringers on forums pumping the amazing qualities of DAWs, synth plugins and FX plugins...
My post wasn't entirely serious, but yes, I've seen people around here promoting or agressively defending a product of a company, only to later find out that they are affiliated with that company in some way.

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fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
12015 posts since 5 Jun, 2012 from Portugal

Re: Why are DAW version updates so upsetting?

Post Wed May 23, 2018 9:37 am

While Mulab may not be as fancy as those popular DAW's, at least updates are fast and painless as there is no installation as such :tu:

elxsound
KVRAF
4567 posts since 18 Aug, 2007 from NYC

Re: Why are DAW version updates so upsetting?

Post Wed May 23, 2018 10:08 am

woggle wrote:
whyterabbyt wrote:
woggle wrote:I doubt any industry in history has hyped what it offers more than the IT industry.
check out the 'health' (ie non-medical) and cosmetics industries some time. ;)
so many assholes to choose from
And plenty of health and cosmetic products made just for that.

elxsound
KVRAF
4567 posts since 18 Aug, 2007 from NYC

Re: Why are DAW version updates so upsetting?

Post Wed May 23, 2018 10:16 am

As for the topic...

I just do not know.

I love the updates in general because the competition is great for users of all programs.

Still, I do not understand the emotional attachment to the various companies and aggressive promotion/defense of certain hosts.

We already have religion, politics and sports, so adding DAWs to this list is just weird IMO.

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
10517 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Why are DAW version updates so upsetting?

Post Wed May 23, 2018 11:39 am

v1o wrote:It's like we've became so attached to our DAWs that we all have a sense of entitlement.
No! It's because developers make mission statements they can't seem to stick to, and promises they can't keep. Then they throw that impending failure through the marketing machine just to make sure that everyone is bound to be disappointed.

In a lot of ways, I cannot stand Apple. And they certainly know how to build a lot of bullshit and hype into their release shows. However, with Logic, they've just got it right. There are no fanfares, no live broadcasts, no "We've got the incredible-ist announcement to make about a fantastic announcement" blah blah blah. Nope! Instead, Logic users get to wake up 2 or 3 times a year to a free, .point-release, that has a list of improvements and bug-fixes that eclipse most of the current competitions' paid-in-full, whole-point iterations :scared:

Topcheese
KVRist
117 posts since 12 Nov, 2017

Re: Why are DAW version updates so upsetting?

Post Wed May 23, 2018 1:21 pm

One person is posting dupes, and I lose my post because my login timed out. Here's what I remember trying to post.

What upsets me is when they want to add features, and then charge you, but they don't fix the current issues for free.

Paying for an updated version doesn't guarantee that I will see those fixes in the next version. Now I'm stuck with a DAW I bought in the last year that will never see any fixes. I'm talking to you Traction, that's why I had to switch!

chk071
KVRAF
17019 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Why are DAW version updates so upsetting?

Post Wed May 23, 2018 1:35 pm

v1o wrote:Why are DAW version updates so upsetting?
Coz people like to complain about every little sh** these days. And, they also like to spoil it for the people who are liking what they see. A small amount of people also voices reasonable criticism. But, frankly, that's the least IMO.

The other side are the fanboys raving about everything. There are especially a lot of people in the Studio One threads, newly registered, just to rave, and start praising threads about Studio One. Really weird.

putoff
KVRer
21 posts since 13 Apr, 2014

Re: Why are DAW version updates so upsetting?

Post Wed May 23, 2018 2:43 pm

requested features not being implemented
That's the main problem. A lot of people usually like their DAW, but think it lacks maybe a couple things that would really make it shine. It takes time for new versions to be released, so if you see an update and what you want is not included, you know you'll have to wait longer, and you can also feel like you're not being listened to.

Honestly, some of these DAWs should just start copying each other and give the people what they want. Great for publicity and getting those user requested features out of the way. Mixcraft has done it many times - Bitwig clip launcher directly on the side of arrange window (exact copy), clip editing and the works on the bottom like Ableton or a variety of other DAWs, controls for FX bin and everything right on the track to a stupid simple manor like Sonar, 64 bit mix engine and such to keep up with Reaper/Cubase/etc... and it's one of the cheapest DAWs out there as well! I don't think I have ever seen a single complaint about Mixcraft online.

Now take Ableton for example. I don't use Live, but I have poked around it. But they put the writing on the wall for where they will go as a company with this update.
1. 10 versions and still no comping. Why? Do they even care at this point?
2. Still does not support VST3. You can use Stagecraft Universal Plug to get them in, but it looks bad to not support it natively and you need to pay for Universal Plug.
3. Can't adjust automation curve points to an exact number value

These seem like obvious things that a music production program would have, or something that it would gain naturally as it's the next logical step. However, they just aren't addressing them and a lot of time has passed. But they spent time making a new wavetable synth... This is why people are annoyed.

People want to feel like their priorities matter and they also want to see each product evolve in a way that gives it new features, new things they'll use. But there are rarely any big user feedback driven development teams, so you get whatever they think you want instead. Usually these never align so in each new update, you have people not always angry about what was introduced, but how what was introduced took precedent over something else that they think should have had time spent on. Imagine asking for healthy food so you can lose weight but instead your parents come back with junkfood and crap or instead come with food that you can't consume or has little nutritious value. Like what the hell!?

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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
4670 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: Why are DAW version updates so upsetting?

Post Wed May 23, 2018 9:02 pm

The only things that bother me are

1. bugs not getting fixed
2. bugs being added
3. existing components or features being abandoned
4. GUIs being turned into flat-fad garbage
5. forcing users into OS upgrades

1 through 3 was a constant source of rage for me with Sonar upgrades.

4 & 5 seems to be the current trend with Logic upgrades.

I rarely have asked for features to be added to today's mature DAWs, and I rarely need the new features/content they stuff into every version to attract new sales. I care about functionality, reliability, and comfort. Few software developers seem to have found an economic model to support that focus.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud

Benutzername
KVRist
278 posts since 23 Jan, 2008 from Hamburg, Germany

Re: Why are DAW version updates so upsetting?

Post Thu May 24, 2018 7:24 am

Most companies have a simple system: All bug reports and feature requests are usually put into 4 or more (virtual) baskets:

1. Showstopper bugs.
2. Really annoying bugs.
3. Minor annoyances or rare glitches.
4. Feature requests.

If one of the developers developer has finished what he was doing then he walks to the table and looks what's still in the baskets. The community manager will tell him to take an item out of basket #1. That's the best choice and I think that we can agree on that.

When basket #1 is empty then it gets complicated. The community manager will naturally point to basket #2 but the marketing department will point to basket #4. Now the boss has to decide what has priority: Unpaid customer service or generate new income. This is not an easy decision but it has to be balanced in a way that the company will survive in the end.

If basket #4 and basket #2 look empty enough then a new version will be released and all remaining items of basket #2 will be moved to basket #3. Now all baskets start to fill up again with new bug reports and new feature requests.

Nobody ever touches basket #3.

jens
KVRAF
18743 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Re: Why are DAW version updates so upsetting?

Post Thu May 24, 2018 10:31 am

LawrenceF wrote:This thread and these kinds of questions in general always boil down to one single word... sociology. Professional people and academics get paid very well to study and/or analyze it and the Internet has proven to be pretty rich source for that, the social sciences in general...
Sociology is the study of social behavior or society, including its origins, development, organization, networks, and institutions. It is a social science that uses various methods of empirical investigation and critical analysis to develop a body of knowledge about social order, disorder, and change.
I'm slightly suspicious you might perhaps confuse sociology with social psychology... ;-)
" It is a measurable fact. Not my opinion. And not even subtle. If you can't hear difference in tail between Valhalla and VSR reverb tail then again change your job dude." kmonkey

THE INTRANCER
KVRian
549 posts since 30 Dec, 2014

Re: Why are DAW version updates so upsetting?

Post Thu May 24, 2018 1:19 pm

People invest time and money in a product to proceed to a destination, people don't want to fall into traps with lions and tigers in them... because that would be bad, people can skirt around small traps, but big traps are a no go, and unavoidable, some people are completely oblivious to the traps and fall right into them blindly, others by the way side who have seen how similar paths have been created before can spot the dangers, and thus shout at those that laid the path so others and they themselves don't fall into the traps, so it doesn't matter how good the shine of the paint on the motor scooter is, if you can't avoid the traps and get to the destination you expect to.

I'm Tarzan :D
THE INTRANCER-Digital 2D & 3D GUI / Music Artist - Orchestral Trance - Ambient - Film Scores | Soundcloud 27 | Soundclick 16 | Producing Music For 25+Years & Sound Monitoring FOH at UK Stadium/Festivals for Carl Cox, FatBoy Slim ect

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