Lets see some studio pics

[Mushy Mushy]

Agreed. What type of furniture/equipment is being used to create that stacked synth-stand setup?

Thanks man. The stands are from KV Gear https://kvgear.com/

Technically I could have bought stands specifically designed for the Boutiques but I chose two additional of the X0X style to ensure they're the same height/angle as the 303's, therefore resulting in the whole lot being uniformly positioned.

[BONES]

Nothing I make, listen to, talk about, dream about, etc etc etc is EDM. EDM is a term coined by Americans for all the rubbish commercial dance music (think Avicii, Afrojack, Tiesto, LCD Soundsystem, the list goes on and on and on and on). Yes, there are many other forms of electronic dance music but they're not EDM. For example, Drum & Bass could hardly be classed in the EDM category despite the best efforts of mainstream media.

I've highlighted the acronym and the words it represents. You may think of EDM as some kind of narrowly construed thing but to all of us on the outside it is a catch-all for every type of dance music made with synths, plus a few that maybe aren't, in the same way that rock is music mostly made with electric guitars. Even with Rock sub-genres there is always a "Rock" at the end of it, although it is sometimes only implied. e.g. You might say "Heavy Metal" or "Punk" but you mean "Heavy Metal Rock" or "Punk Rock" and that's what people hear. And when you typed "Drum & Bass" above, I read "EDM" because that's what it is to me. I have a vague idea what it is but if you played me a D&B track and, say, a straight techno track side-by-side, I doubt I'd know which was which. It's all just EDM to me.

To see the other side, look at what gets categorised as Post-Punk. Artists from Tones On Tail or The Passage to Killing Joke and New Model Army. They sound nothing alike, except there is something about what they do or the way they see the world or go about their music, a very fine thread, that ties them together. There is more variety in that one genre than in the whole of electronic dance music, yet it makes perfect sense to call it all Post-Punk.

So a bit like a guitar then?

No, absolutely nothing like a guitar. There are many different guitars and bands within the same sub-genres will use all of them. e.g. You'll find both Gibson Les Pauls and Fender Stratocasters are the dominant guitars used in every kind of rock music, from the softest of Soft Rock to the heaviest of Heavy Metal Rock. Ditto for the Fender Precision Bass. Yet you'll still find other guitars used randomly around the place. e.g. Geordie from Killing Joke mostly uses a Gretsch Semi-Acoustic, not unlike the one George Harrison of The Beatles made famous in the early 60s, to make the most full-on wall of sound you'll ever hear. Most guitarists concentrate on the instrument they most like to play and worry about getting the sound they want after that. They don't think about their instruments like an EDM artist at all.

That seems to have done extremely well several decades later. Remember the synth can be run through an infinite number of FX - distortion plays a big part in defining the sound. 25 years on and I still constantly hear things from these "same" instruments that blow me away.

Absolutely, but my point is that you can't use whichever one you feel like to make a specific genre of EDM, can you? The choice of instrument almost defines which genre the music will be categorised as. Or at least the type of sound you use, whereas I can use any instrument, any sound, any tempo I feel like and what I make will always be EBM. I could even add guitars to it and substitute the drum machines for a real drummer and it would still be EBM.

Even then, it would still just be our little corner of EBM, we could never hope to cover the full gamut of what the genre encompasses, even if we wanted to. Don't you think it's better to have a genre that is bigger than your imagination and/or creative ability, rather than genres that confine and restrict those qualities? I think that's why a lot of artists don't like being stuck with a genre label, they find the whole idea too oppressive, too restrictive.

This is excellent that you feel this way and the following comment definitely isn't personal but I don't want you to like it.

The point isn't whether or not I like it, the point is there isn't sufficient difference between genres for the casual listener to be able to tell one from the other, let alone which is which. Sometimes the same is true of other genres - are AC/DC Hard Rock or Heavy Metal? (You certainly can't tell by their instruments.) But those are exceptions, not the rule.

Part of the appeal is because they're not commercial and nobody within a 20 mile square radius will ever have heard of them.

I don't understand that attitude, it seems incredibly selfish. I'd be the happiest man alive if the music I loved was Top 10 and everybody listened to it and enjoyed it and I heard it on the radio and in shops everywhere I went. To be clear, I'm talking about Post-Punk, not the EBM we make, so it's not about creating more opportunities for our own music but about being a world where people were more open to new experiences.

Acid (or at least the hard London variant I like) doesn't pretend to be accessible, the attitude is "if you don't like it then get the fk out".

See, that makes me laugh. To me it's more like "excuse me, sir, but if you are not enjoying this music, perhaps you'd like to move along, if it's not too much trouble, sir. Thanking you ever so much, sir, for your understanding." There is nothing even remotely "f*ck off" about it, it's really quite tame.

Nope, 25 years of listening to it later and my love continues to grow. I'll go to my grave listening to a acid, psy, death metal mashup.

To me that sounds like listening to the same three albums over and over again for the rest of your life. I hope to go to my grave listening to amazing music that I don't even know exists today. The music I listen to today is just like that - 10 years ago I didn't even realise Post-Punk was a genre, even though maybe a third of my collection fitted into it. Now it's probably what I listen to 75% of the time. Discovering it as a genre, when I'd previously thought it was just a point in time, has broadened my outlook considerably and allowed me to enjoy music that you'll probably never even get to experience with such a closed minded attitude.

[samsam]

So, Mushy has got a loverly looking studio

[Mushy Mushy]

@Bones: I’m not really interested in arguing further. I know what I like and I’ll continue down that direction or indeed any direction of my personal choosing.

So, Mushy has got a loverly looking studio

Many thanks, samsam

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

The MIDI clock corner. The SBX1 drives it all

Nice and tidy, but looks like there's a lot of leaning to be done.

[donkey tugger]

The MIDI clock corner. The SBX1 drives it all

Nice and tidy, but looks like there's a lot of leaning to be done.

Perhaps there is a market for a 'sinthesiser stick' to twiddle the knobs at distance, a bit like those ones wankers have phones on.

[AnX]

[Mushy Mushy]

Nice and tidy, but looks like there's a lot of leaning to be done.

Not as much as it appears. The racks either side of the MX1 are comfortably within arms reach when sitting down. The top 303's are a little further away however I always use the following logic:

303 #1 (ie, top): does the bass so once set I no longer need to touch it.
303 #3 (ie, bottom): does the heavily tweaked leads. That's why the RE is in that position over the TT's.

The TB03 at the top on the other side has a USB extension cable so I can drag the unit onto the desk when I need to program it

The 3 units on the far right are definitely a bit of a stretch but they can be controlled by MIDI keyboard or a VST editor. That said, when I'm standing up they're perfectly within reach.

[Mushy Mushy]

Perhaps there is a market for a 'sinthesiser stick' to twiddle the knobs at distance, a bit like those ones wankers have phones on.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Nice and tidy, but looks like there's a lot of leaning to be done.

Not as much as it appears. The racks either side of the MX1 are comfortably within arms reach when sitting down. The top 303's are a little further away however I always use the following logic:

303 #1 (ie, top): does the bass so once set I no longer need to touch it.
303 #3 (ie, bottom): does the heavily tweaked leads. That's why the RE is in that position over the TT's.

The TB03 at the top on the other side has a USB extension cable so I can drag the unit onto the desk when I need to program it

The 3 units on the far right are definitely a bit of a stretch but they can be controlled by MIDI keyboard or a VST editor. That said, when I'm standing up they're perfectly within reach.

i guess if it's more of a set-'em-and-leave-'em type thing it's not so bad, but it's giving me vertigo just looking at it

[sjm]

You may think of EDM as some kind of narrowly construed thing but to all of us on the outside it is a catch-all for every type of dance music made with synths, plus a few that maybe aren't, in the same way that rock is music mostly made with electric guitars. Even with Rock sub-genres there is always a "Rock" at the end of it, although it is sometimes only implied. e.g. You might say "Heavy Metal" or "Punk" but you mean "Heavy Metal Rock" or "Punk Rock" and that's what people hear. And when you typed "Drum & Bass" above, I read "EDM" because that's what it is to me. I have a vague idea what it is but if you played me a D&B track and, say, a straight techno track side-by-side, I doubt I'd know which was which. It's all just EDM to me.

Very interesting read; I agree with most of it, but I also agree with Mushy.

To Mushy, EDM is a particular sub-category of "electronic music with dance club roots" for want of a better descriptor that isn't "EDM". To Bones, EDM is any electronic music with dance club roots.

I think what's happening here is what happens when a bunch of "rockers" get together for a jam session. If someone says gutturally screams "let's play some rock!", everyone in the band has a clear idea of what that means. It's not punk, it's not metal, it's not rock 'n' roll. It's probably somewhat overdriven guitars + a crazy solo featuring tongue waggling, over blues-inspired chord progressions and licks/riffs, while the lead singer does his/her best to strut around like a poncy wanker. You might call it "classic rock" if you needed to make a distinction. Every single member of that band agrees that hard rock and grunge are both "rock", but without that additional modifier ("grunge", "hard", "punk") there is normally an implicit understanding that "rock" is a certain sub-genre of "rock".

"EDM" is no different. If you're not into synth based club music (which is kinda weird if you like EBM, isn't it?), then yeah, anything fast and non-human might fall into the "EDM" genre. There's a massive difference between DnB and Trance though, it's like the difference between reggae and rock. Sure, some reggae rocks more, and some rock incorporates a bit of an offbeat feel, but do you really constantly confuse the two? The beat and accent is so different...

But anyway, to someone "in the know", EDM is basically what used to be called "Eurocheese" or "Europop" back in the 90s. "EDM" is, AFAICT, the US label for something that took them by surprise 20 years after the fact. There's not a huge difference between things like E-rotic and Rednex, and things like Avicii. It's not garage house or jungle, and sounds nothing like it; even you would notice the difference
(side note: in Europe, this stuff was generally called "techno" back in the day, which annoyed techno aficionados no end)

But even though you'd notice the difference, you'd probably still call it all "EDM".

This is essentially "code-switching"; the same word has different meanings to different people and in different contexts. Just like a "G-string" means different things to an underwear fetishist and a guitarist.

[BONES]

My main problem with dance music (if we can't call it EDM) is the lack of structure and vocals in the vast majority of it. A piece starts, it goes on for a while and then it finishes. Often it sounds like a really good intro to a song that never materialises, if you know what I mean. Someone puts something on and I think "this could be good" but then it never goes anywhere and I end up disappointed at an opportunity lost. There simply isn't enough in it to hold my interest. OTOH, the EBM that I like (there is plenty of EBM that I don't like, even though I can acknowledge that it's good music and well made) has structure and an arrangement - there are verses and choruses and things like that to sustain my interest over the four minutes or whatever that the song goes for. And some EBM is synth based but there is plenty that is mostly guitar, bass and drums, with a synth player or DJ thrown in (Rammstein, Die Krupps, etc.).

Then there is the album thing. I only ever listen to albums and if an album is just 10 songs that all sound the same and run at the same tempo, then I'll be bored after a few tracks and find something else (Suicide Commando, I'm talking about you). Our albums, for example, have tempos ranging from around 90BPM to 150BPM or more. That makes your slow songs fundamentally different from your fast songs and provides interest from start to finish (assuming we do a good job, of course). We try to put two or three dancefloor-friendly songs on each album but the songs we like to perform, the ones we are most proud of, are usually the slower ones that won't get played in clubs but often get the best response from a live audience. OTOH, EDM is only focused on one thing and is all the more boring for it.

[sjm]

Yeah, I get that with the lack of vocals too, but it's also horses for courses. I was at a "techno" do last night (Techno, DnB, Big Beat), and the whole point is that there's a beat to dance to that is more or less constant. That's fine for me when the music is serving as dance music. I'm not big on drinking (was a bit tipsy at New Year, nothing since), so I don't need songs that I can blare out the lyrics to while dancing. Of course, there's EDM/Eurocheese for that too.

I'd never listen to techno at home, I find it boring in that context because of the structure you allude to. But it's designed that way, so that as part of a set at a dance night, one track flows seamlessly to the next. If the DJ is good, you don't notice the transitions between tracks. It's one long trip that ebbs and flows, rather than a series of songs with different themes and ideas. There is a method to the madness that is given by the music's context.

It sounds to me - with allusions to albums etc. - that you have a different approach to your music that isn't really what dance music is about. If you drop from 148 to 90 BPM on the dance floor, that saps all the energy out of the party. If you are actively listening to music, then variation is important.

Anyway, if you take the guitars and vocals out of Die Krupps, you basically have "EDM". You might actually find you like some of the harder psy stuff, or something in that general direction. I quite like listening to that kind of thing at home, it doesn't bore me the way techno does after a few minutes.

[BONES]

one track flows seamlessly to the next. If the DJ is good, you don't notice the transitions between tracks.

That's because one track sounds like the next, there is nothing to let you know when one's finished and another has started. The skillful DJ is the one who can manage seamless transitions all night at an 80s club.

If you drop from 148 to 90 BPM on the dance floor, that saps all the energy out of the party.

Not when we do it. When we drop the tempo, we ramp up the power and energy. Our most powerful songs are all slower than 120bpm. Our fast songs are just fodder. It's too easy to make your energy at a faster tempo, there is no challenge or depth in it.

Anyway, if you take the guitars and vocals out of Die Krupps, you basically have "EDM".

Actually, some of Die Krupps' stuff is very clever. If you listen to III: Odyssey of the Mind, you'll notice that right through that album they have basically reversed the roles of synth and guitar. The guitars provide almost all the rhythms and the synths play all the other parts that fill it out and make it interesting. Beyond that, while they might use EDM type sounds, their songs have a fairly standard rock structure. And these days they don't always use their guitars and that's the stuff I really like - Als Wären Wir Für Immer and The Machinists of Joy are the best things they've done since II: The Final Option and there are hardly any guitars at all.

You might actually find you like some of the harder psy stuff, or something in that general direction.

A lot of tracks that get played at Goth/EBM nights are like that and it leaves me cold. I trawl that kind of stuff for sounds and ideas but I can never get into it because of the lack of structure to the arrangements.