Let's talk about sample inaccurate virtual instruments...

[alexpander]

I'm interested in how you deal with sample inaccurate virtual instruments. Does that bother you, do you ignore it or do you use workarounds?

What bothers me the most are instruments that have a somehow "floating" timing. This is very annoying for real world use when you are creating samples, stems or just doing audio edits.

Here are two high-priced virtual instruments that are not even able to bounce a simple 4 on the floor beat (just four notes of the same sample/sound/tone on every beat) - without completely destroying the timing. Since it is not coherent in itself, later audio processing is miserable. If the shifted timing is at least uniform, as with Avenger or some UVI instruments (2-3ms) for example, this can simply be corrected by a manual latency compensation (e.g. track delay) - if you are keen on tight timing. But the incoherent timing puts me to the test every time the developers dismiss me as picky.

[antic604]

Will your music sound objectively better if timing is perfect? No? Then move on

[alexpander]

Will your music sound objectively better if timing is perfect?

Sure, music is all about timing and unwanted clicks and transient remains aren't wanted... at least in my kind of music...

[.jon]

Will your music sound objectively better if timing is perfect?

Sure, music is all about timing and unwanted clicks and transient remains aren't wanted... at least in my kind of music...

When has any music been sample accurate? Was with when musicians played like real tight, or when synths were synced with MIDI?

[alexpander]

Will your music sound objectively better if timing is perfect?

Sure, music is all about timing and unwanted clicks and transient remains aren't wanted... at least in my kind of music...

When has any music been sample accurate? Was with when musicians played like real tight, or when synths were synced with MIDI?

Most, if not all DAW stock instruments (e.g. in Cubase, Logic) are pretty much sample accurate, so is the music made with it (depending on the resolution/quantization). The timing is absolutely coherent.

[Gamma-UT]

This is why some producers put things like kicks and snares on the DAW timeline directly rather than triggering them from a plugin. Given that hardware timing with MIDI has always had some slop in it, I don't see why this is more of an issue now.

[alexpander]

This is why some producers put things like kicks and snares on the DAW timeline directly rather than triggering them from a plugin. Given that hardware timing with MIDI has always had some slop in it, I don't see why this is more of an issue now.

Yes, indeed. I guess it's a matter of comfort. I am just bothered by the transient residues or better said: the incoherence not the latency itself.

[Armagibbon]

Comes with the territory man. I had to bounce like a 3 min heavy automated synth line 5 times for a project a couple months back cus the osc couldnt sync right. Wish they had a f*ckin determinism button somewhere but nope gotta deal...

[fmr]

Judging exclusively from the pictures, you are using an instrument with some kind of sine wave. It happens the sine wave is not oscillating in sync with the time you are using, to start with. This is pretty much what may happen in any free running oscillator.

So, maybe I'm missing something, but how do you want to have a "phase locked" waveform when the waveform period is not in the same time as the one you are using in your music?

But even if you have, If you are triggering something and the oscillators are free running, it's natural that the waveform doesn't always start in the same point, As long as the period remains constant, I'd say this is natural, and expected. And it shouldn't have any effect on the music whatsoever. If you want to achieve some kind of "mechanic" effect, with always the same sound in every beat, do as Gamma-UT suggested: record the sound, and place it in every beat.

[alexpander]

Judging exclusively from the pictures, you are using an instrument with some kind of sine wave. It happens the sine wave is not oscillating in sync with the time you are using, to start with. This is pretty much what may happen in any free running oscillator.

So, maybe I'm missing something, but how do you want to have a "phase locked" waveform when the waveform period is not in the same time as the one you are using in your music?

But even if you have, If you are triggering something and the oscillators are free running, it's natural that the waveform doesn't always start in the same point, As long as the period remains constant, I'd say this is natural, and expected. And it shouldn't have any effect on the music whatsoever. If you want to achieve some kind of "mechanic" effect, with always the same sound in every beat, do as Gamma-UT suggested: record the sound, and place it in every beat.

In these pictures you see triggered kick drum samples (sample based oscs) without free running oscs. I'm not talking about phase shifts or free-running oscillators, but quite simply timing. The cause is the internal timer of the instrument or the buffer transfer between DAW and instrument.

[fmr]

In these pictures you see triggered kick drum samples (sample based oscs) without free running oscs. I'm not talking about phase shifts or free-running oscillators, but quite simply timing. The cause is the internal timer of the instrument or the buffer transfer between DAW and instrument.

But aren't the samples modulated in any way? Are they naked samples that are simply read by the sampler and played back, without any modulation at all? Which sampler is it, BTW?

[alexpander]

In these pictures you see triggered kick drum samples (sample based oscs) without free running oscs. I'm not talking about phase shifts or free-running oscillators, but quite simply timing. The cause is the internal timer of the instrument or the buffer transfer between DAW and instrument.

But aren't the samples modulated in any way? Are they naked samples that are simply read by the sampler and played back, without any modulation at all? Which sampler is it, BTW?

Of course not! Yes, they aren't modulated at all.
The first one is reFX Nexus, the second one is Parawave Rapid. Nexus is well known for its sample inaccuracy, however I can't cope with the incoherency. Rapid especially pulls the bounced notes forward(!) and nobody seems to mind but me.

[chk071]

Never had an issue with this… maybe i got lucky, and only got sample accurate instruments. I understand that that can become quite an issue though.

[fmr]

In these pictures you see triggered kick drum samples (sample based oscs) without free running oscs. I'm not talking about phase shifts or free-running oscillators, but quite simply timing. The cause is the internal timer of the instrument or the buffer transfer between DAW and instrument.

But aren't the samples modulated in any way? Are they naked samples that are simply read by the sampler and played back, without any modulation at all? Which sampler is it, BTW?

Of course not! Yes, they aren't modulated at all.
The first one is reFX Nexus, the second one is Parawave Rapid. Nexus is well known for its sample inaccuracy, however I can't cope with the incoherency. Rapid especially pulls the bounced notes forward(!) and nobody seems to mind but me.

Well, one is a ROMpler (and a very old one, with a very old engine). The other is basically a wavetable synth. Maybe you should try with something like Kontakt, or even simpler, like TAL Sampler

[chk071]

Now that i think about, i had some arpeggiators with timing issues. Might be the same thing.