8DIO - My experience

[GearNostalgia]

[MOD EDIT]
I've edited the title to be less provocative.
[/MOD EDIT]

I have always been a person believing that it is best to buy gear and software that I use. I try to engage with solid brands for a long time relation. Renting has never really appealed to me, but now it does and it is all thanks to a bitter experience with 8Dio that I really don't want anybody else to experience.

Music is a long time hobby for me. I bought my first cheap synth in 1991 (MKS50 that I have kept and makes me Nostalgic . And I have picked up some more secondhand cheap stuff since then. Around Christmas this year I stumbled upon the sales for VSTs and got attracted to sample libraries. Did not happen then, but in the last day of may I stumbled in on 8Dios recent sale. After listening to some polished demos and a very pursuasive chat with their online support I bought a choir library.

With a lot of anticipation I played some random chords with it right after. After like 10 minutes or so playing a scale and random jamming I heard something that did not seem right. I contacted their online support and got the advice to mail support. Mailed support and got a reply the day after that it was a natural choir and that sound I was hearing was a part of the recording. I chatted to support again and got the advice to use a paramEQ to tone it down. I said that I did not want to spend a lot of time filtering out defects in a high priced library. We talked about it and the onlinesupport told me that this was the wrong product for me and that their other libraries might suit me better.

Ok, fine I can try another product, how do I swap over? I asked.

Then things just got absurd. The online support could not swap me over for another product and instructed me to state the case to their mail support. It took two days and then I got a blunt and simple "No, we can not do that". Since then I have tried reasoning with them asking for some kind of "store credit", "refund" or trade to another of their products. All in wane and with the same short blunt "We can not and referral to that single line of a no return policy that they have in the middle of their long legal text". I also asked if I could sell my license on. You guessed it - blunt "no you can't". So now I own a library that I don't like and can't even sell.

Of course they CAN solve this, but they just don't want to and don't think they need to act decent to their customers. Their setup is a honey trap. They have very slick online staff that engage you and lull you in a sense that they are a supportive quality business . But they are not, if you really want some support they blunt refuse.

So just stay away and go with another supplier if you can. You don't want to deal with 8Dio.

Where do I go from here? Suddenly EastWest cloud seems attractive. Monthly fee that I can just end if I don't like the libraries. Native instruments Komplete seems ok too, they have a process for handling licence trades. Are there any other firms that allow you to sell your sample library on or solve bad purchases gracefully?

[zvenx]

I realise that you don't normally buy sample libraries, but many if not most are non refundable. (at least on the kontakt side of things and I know east west does too). You can't get a refund, exchange or resell them.

It isn't something that only 8dio does on the Kontakt side, many if not most do it too.
To be honest I can see their side.
You buy the license for the product, and later on get an exchange (or sell it). How do they know you are no longer using the product that you exchanged? It isn't like an ilok license that they can revoke (as would be in the case of east west)

rsp

[zvenx]

https://8dio.com/licensing-agreement/

"This license is nontransferable and expressly forbids resale or lease of the product. "

http://www.soundsonline.com/Terms-and-Conditions

"Can I sell my Sample CD/Virtual Instrument and/or Software to someone else?

No, the license you are purchasing is NOT TRANSFERABLE at any time. Use of an 'illegally' sold copy may result in legal action from the licensor of the sound samples and/or software. For this reason we caution our customers not to purchase copies of our sound samples and /or software from 'online auctions' or 'trading sites', as these are often illegal copies in violation of the End User License Agreement.

"

rsp

[topaz]

Aside the fact that you cannot resell sample libraries or get refunds I have to agree.

8DIO are a poor company, some of their sampling is among the most dodgy out there. especially their spiccato strings in Adagietto, sold as a fast strings library most samples have a massive gap at the start so the timing is sloppy to say the least.

sorry you had to find out the hard way.

I have always been a person believing that it is best to buy gear and software that I use. I try to engage with solid brands for a long time relation. Renting has never really appealed to me, but now it does and it is all thanks to a bitter experience with 8Dio that I really don't want anybody else to experience.

Music is a long time hobby for me. I bought my first cheap synth in 1991 (MKS50 that I have kept and makes me Nostalgic . And I have picked up some more secondhand cheap stuff since then. Around Christmas this year I stumbled upon the sales for VSTs and got attracted to sample libraries. Did not happen then, but in the last day of may I stumbled in on 8Dios recent sale. After listening to some polished demos and a very pursuasive chat with their online support I bought a choir library.

With a lot of anticipation I played some random chords with it right after. After like 10 minutes or so playing a scale and random jamming I heard something that did not seem right. I contacted their online support and got the advice to mail support. Mailed support and got a reply the day after that it was a natural choir and that sound I was hearing was a part of the recording. I chatted to support again and got the advice to use a paramEQ to tone it down. I said that I did not want to spend a lot of time filtering out defects in a high priced library. We talked about it and the onlinesupport told me that this was the wrong product for me and that their other libraries might suit me better.

Ok, fine I can try another product, how do I swap over? I asked.

Then things just got absurd. The online support could not swap me over for another product and instructed me to state the case to their mail support. It took two days and then I got a blunt and simple "No, we can not do that". Since then I have tried reasoning with them asking for some kind of "store credit", "refund" or trade to another of their products. All in wane and with the same short blunt "We can not and referral to that single line of a no return policy that they have in the middle of their long legal text". I also asked if I could sell my license on. You guessed it - blunt "no you can't". So now I own a library that I don't like and can't even sell.

Of course they CAN solve this, but they just don't want to and don't think they need to act decent to their customers. Their setup is a honey trap. They have very slick online staff that engage you and lull you in a sense that they are a supportive quality business . But they are not, if you really want some support they blunt refuse.

So just stay away and go with another supplier if you can. You don't want to deal with 8Dio.

Where do I go from here? Suddenly EastWeast cloud seems attractive. Monthly fee that I can just end if I don't like the libraries. Native instruments Komplete seems ok too, they have a process for handling licence trades. Are there any other firms that allow you to sell your sample library on or solve bad purchases gracefully?

[GearNostalgia]

I realise that you don't normally buy sample libraries, but many if not most are non refundable. (at least on the kontakt side of things and I know east west does too). You can't get a refund, exchange or resell them.

It isn't something that only 8dio does on the Kontakt side, many if not most do it too.
To be honest I can see their side.
You buy the license for the product, and later on get an exchange (or sell it). How do they know you are no longer using the product that you exchanged? It isn't like an ilok license that they can revoke (as would be in the case of east west)

rsp

Well actually no. This was not my first Kontakt library purchase. I have one from OrangeTree, but it is beautiful and sounds just great so I have not had any reasons to discuss it with them. Now that you mentioned it I looked it up and they have a final sales policy too. Good thing I atleast like that sound.

I really think they should be a lot more upfront with this information and especially if they have online sales persons that chat you up and ensure you that their stuff is the best and they will make you impressed. They could atleast mention it. BTW, sales are totally final.

If they treat all customers like criminals on a first time basis I guess they get zero loyalty. I will never touch their stuff again. My resentment is so strong I doubt I will be able to even use the library that I am stuck with now. I guess this will just be one of those expensive and bitter lemon life deals us sometime to be more careful.

So my advice for others is - Stay away from 8Dio(and others with the same crap policies) unless you are really really sure it sounds exactly right. I will definitely give EastWest a go now. A lot of libraries and a good way to "try" before you buy. A month of rental give a lot of time to test things out properly.

[zvenx]

I use to use the adagietto spiccato often (matter of fact I just fired them up again both ensemble and individual) and didn't find them loose or late to trigger...what other libraries are you comparing them to? Most hardware Rom's usually edit out the initial attack to make them sharper and more 'in time', but that isn't how a real orchestra sounds.
rsp

[zvenx]

....... I will definitely give EastWest a go now. A lot of libraries and a good way to "try" before you buy. A month of rental give a lot of time to test things out properly.

I guess indeed that is the one advantage of a rental plan
Good luck.
rsp

[GearNostalgia]

I use to use the adagietto spiccato often (matter of fact I just fired them up again both ensemble and individual) and didn't find them loose or late to trigger...what other libraries are you comparing them to? Most hardware Rom's usually edit out the initial attack to make them sharper and more 'in time', but that isn't how a real orchestra sounds.
rsp

Not comparing them to anything but old and cheap Romplers and analog synths. This is a choir library that I wanted to make my tracks a bit more cinematic and less plain industrial. Ity really blew me away that the first low octave was ok. One note have that ringing bitone in the second. Three in the third, and almost all in the forth. It seemed like a random problem. The irregularity of it seemed like a "bug" and not something natural to a living choir.

[zvenx]

I use to use the adagietto spiccato often (matter of fact I just fired them up again both ensemble and individual) and didn't find them loose or late to trigger...what other libraries are you comparing them to? Most hardware Rom's usually edit out the initial attack to make them sharper and more 'in time', but that isn't how a real orchestra sounds.
rsp

Not comparing them to anything but old and cheap Romplers and analog synths. This is a choir library that I wanted to make my tracks a bit more cinematic and less plain industrial. Ity really blew me away that the first low octave was ok. One note have that ringing bitone in the second. Three in the third, and almost all in the forth. It seemed like a random problem. The irregularity of it seemed like a "bug" and not something natural to a living choir.

sorry this was @topaz.

I don't have any of their choir libraries so can't comment..
Btw vi-control has a forum that does a lot more conversating about sample libraries next thing you want more info before you spending money on a sampling library.

rsp

[GearNostalgia]

....... I will definitely give EastWest a go now. A lot of libraries and a good way to "try" before you buy. A month of rental give a lot of time to test things out properly.

I guess indeed that is the one advantage of a rental plan
Good luck.
rsp

Yes rental Ilok seems like the only sensible way to go and not sticking to legal bonds assuming that musicians are crooks that dish out 600 just to f**k them over and make torrents.

Thank you, the only good luck so far was that it was on sale so I did not pay full price. But I guess on full price I may have googled up their reputation and never ever bought it at all.

[tfishbein82]

I have one from OrangeTree, but it is beautiful and sounds just great so I have not had any reasons to discuss it with them. Now that you mentioned it I looked it up and they have a final sales policy too. Good thing I atleast like that sound.

While Orange Tree Samples has a policy like that, I think it's mostly to protect themselves from abuse. They are in fact quite generous in respect to selling/transferring your license. And in the rare instance, I believe they will refund a dissatisfied customer.

[dandezebra]

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=496919

[GearNostalgia]

I have one from OrangeTree, but it is beautiful and sounds just great so I have not had any reasons to discuss it with them. Now that you mentioned it I looked it up and they have a final sales policy too. Good thing I atleast like that sound.

While Orange Tree Samples has a policy like that, I think it's mostly to protect themselves from abuse. They are in fact quite generous in respect to selling/transferring your license. And in the rare instance, I believe they will refund a dissatisfied customer.

Well I am very pleased with my Dracus guitar so I have not asked them for any kind of support yet, but it is good to hear that they have a reputation for beeing reasonable. My personal take on this whole nightmare is take acting like 8Dio is a LOSS-LOSS situation. They get a very unpleased customer that never ever returns and like me warns others to stay away from them. So they loose both future sales to that customer and many other potential customers as well. All loose out. I also believe that history of music and film piracy has more or less prooven that going after this the legal way does not change this. People either want to own and do the right thing or they don't and if the don't they find other way to pirate stuff, and if they can't they will not buy it anyway, they just don't.

Now that I got entangled into this shit I think it would be nice to have a simple poll summing up peoples experiences with SoundManufacturers so you can see which firms handles issues like this gracefully or not. Having a lot off different threads to wade through is not something you do in the spur of the moment.

[GearNostalgia]

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=496919

Thank you, it was nice to see that NI is on the route to a rental service as well. Ideally I would like to see rental plan where you pay a small sum for the service and like 1 buck extra for each instrument you download. I am not a huge fan of getting ALL packs cause I usually end up using like 15% or so of them.

[GearNostalgia]

sorry this was @topaz.

I don't have any of their choir libraries so can't comment..
Btw vi-control has a forum that does a lot more conversating about sample libraries next thing you want more info before you spending money on a sampling library.

rsp

Well few have their choirs I guess. Very pricey and with their "support" doing nothing to resolve a problem I hope it stays that way, just not worth the aggro. Thank you for your link to VI-forum. I will look at it, but I am not sure I can keep up with multiple forums.