Best Piano - PIANOTEQ

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
User avatar
fmr
KVRAF
7635 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Post Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:38 am

nichttuntun wrote:Hi. I am using Ivory II. Can anyone say something about the differences here? I find the only real good sounding one is the Steinway model D German. Thank you.
One is based in samples, while the other is based on physical modeling. Considering all the subtleties you can have in a real piano, no sample library will ever do justice to all of them, while in a physical model, if well done (and Pianoteq is now at version 6, with many years of development and perfecting the models) can respond much better to all those subtleties (considering you care, of course - many just want a particular "sound", and are not worried about all these).
Fernando (FMR)

nichttuntun
KVRist
481 posts since 22 Nov, 2017

Re: Best Piano - PIANOTEQ

Post Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:40 am

mcbpete wrote:
nichttuntun wrote:Hi. I am using Ivory II. Can anyone say something about the differences here
Over 75gb less install space though infinitely more versatile/configurable for one :D
Yes that's obvious. :wink:

What's great about Ivory II is the shimmer resonance sound while playing extensive chords with sustain pedal. Sounds great.

But I haven't heard that in a Pianoteq demo. Found no material with sustained chords that simply fade out to compare that.

nichttuntun
KVRist
481 posts since 22 Nov, 2017

Re: Best Piano - PIANOTEQ

Post Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:43 am

mcbpete wrote:
nichttuntun wrote:Hi. I am using Ivory II. Can anyone say something about the differences here
Over 75gb less install space though infinitely more versatile/configurable for one :D
Yes that's obvious. :wink:

What's great about Ivory II is the shimmer resonance sound while playing extensive chords with sustain pedal. Sounds great.

But I haven't heard that in a Pianoteq demo. Found no material with sustained chords that simply fade out to compare that.

nichttuntun
KVRist
481 posts since 22 Nov, 2017

Re: Best Piano - PIANOTEQ

Post Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:48 am

fmr wrote:
nichttuntun wrote:Hi. I am using Ivory II. Can anyone say something about the differences here? I find the only real good sounding one is the Steinway model D German. Thank you.
One is based in samples, while the other is based on physical modeling. Considering all the subtleties you can have in a real piano, no sample library will ever do justice to all of them, while in a physical model, if well done (and Pianoteq is now at version 6, with many years of development and perfecting the models) can respond much better to all those subtleties (considering you care, of course - many just want a particular "sound", and are not worried about all these).
Okay. I do know the technical differences and I am well informed about Pianoteq. But I am missing a comparison in the sympathic resonance and the shimmer resonance of the sound while playing sustained and fading out big chords. I think IvoryII is very good here and the sympathic resonance is modelled too at IvoryII in addition to the samples.

mcbpete
KVRian
1228 posts since 24 Jun, 2006 from London, England

Re: Best Piano - PIANOTEQ

Post Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:54 am

The end of a track I did last year ends with a fading out chord if that is of some use - https://caretakertribute.bandcamp.com/t ... ch-the-sky

I thought there was a 'sympathic resonance' example on the Pianoteq site but I couldn't seem to find it...

nichttuntun
KVRist
481 posts since 22 Nov, 2017

Re: Best Piano - PIANOTEQ

Post Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:56 am

mcbpete wrote:The end of a track I did last year ends with a fading out chord if that is of some use - https://caretakertribute.bandcamp.com/t ... ch-the-sky

I thought there was a 'sympathic resonance' example on the Pianoteq site but I couldn't seem to find it...
Thank you. A nice piece of music. I liked listening to it. The piano Pianoteq instrument sounds good in context but maybe it is a bit artificially too? Hard to tell :)

mcbpete
KVRian
1228 posts since 24 Jun, 2006 from London, England

Re: Best Piano - PIANOTEQ

Post Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:14 am

That might just be my untrained playing technique, maybe a demo from someone with better skills than I:

https://www.pianoteq.com/audio/steingra ... ogwall.mp3

Pianoteq
KVRist
38 posts since 25 Aug, 2006

Re: Best Piano - PIANOTEQ

Post Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:53 am

I'm excited to read your feedback on this new instrument for Pianoteq, as well as linking to the demo above. :)

Sympathetic resonance demo available here:
https://www.pianoteq.com/pianoteq6#pane_sound
Niclas Fogwall
Sales & support
Pianoteq
www.pianoteq.com

Amram
KVRian
529 posts since 12 Jan, 2013 from Foolish Shepherd = God

Re: Best Piano - PIANOTEQ

Post Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:51 am

@pianoteq ,
When you have sale for the stage?

simmo75
KVRian
948 posts since 25 Mar, 2016 from Seattle

Re: Best Piano - PIANOTEQ

Post Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:56 am

+1
Please have an upgrade path sale

Amram
KVRian
529 posts since 12 Jan, 2013 from Foolish Shepherd = God

Re: Best Piano - PIANOTEQ

Post Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:26 pm

Does anyone here have opinions about Bechestein Digital?

BBFG#
KVRAF
5320 posts since 28 Apr, 2013

Re: Best Piano - PIANOTEQ

Post Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:03 pm

Amram & simmo75;

Try contacting them through support.
I did after I bought Stage 5 and they were extremely accommodating.

User avatar
Fleer
KVRAF
3805 posts since 23 Aug, 2014 from Boston/Cambridge

Re: Best Piano - PIANOTEQ

Post Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:38 pm

That new Steingraeber is Pianoteq’s best one yet. Simply breathtaking.

User avatar
fmr
KVRAF
7635 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Re: Best Piano - PIANOTEQ

Post Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:23 am

nichttuntun wrote:
mcbpete wrote:
nichttuntun wrote:Hi. I am using Ivory II. Can anyone say something about the differences here
Over 75gb less install space though infinitely more versatile/configurable for one :D
Yes that's obvious. :wink:

What's great about Ivory II is the shimmer resonance sound while playing extensive chords with sustain pedal. Sounds great.

But I haven't heard that in a Pianoteq demo. Found no material with sustained chords that simply fade out to compare that.
I think what you say it's obvious isn't that much obvious to you. Being a physically modeled piano, Piantoeq is NOT limited to any kind of piano sound. Therefore, even the implemented models have several presets that greatly expand the "sound" of that modeled piano, in many aspects, making it suitable for many different uses.

And if you have the Standard or the Pro version, you can even tweak those presets to your choice. Since it isn't sample based, you are not limited to that sampled sounds, you can go pretty much anywhere you want. I don't know what kind of "Pianoteq demo" you heard, but I can sure you that Pianoteq can sound in many, many different ways.

That said, your mention of a "shimmer resonance sound while playing extensive chords with sustain pedal" is not really helping. Maybe you could post an example of what exactly do you mean by that?

I have an example I usually use to demo pianos, which is the Rachmaninoff Prelude in C sharp Minor Op. 3 No. 2. Don't know if that is suitable to what you look for, but I can post some examples recorded using Pianoteq several models. It has plenty of chords with sustained pedal.
Fernando (FMR)

nichttuntun
KVRist
481 posts since 22 Nov, 2017

Re: Best Piano - PIANOTEQ

Post Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:26 am

fmr wrote:
nichttuntun wrote:
mcbpete wrote:
nichttuntun wrote:Hi. I am using Ivory II. Can anyone say something about the differences here
Over 75gb less install space though infinitely more versatile/configurable for one :D
Yes that's obvious. :wink:

What's great about Ivory II is the shimmer resonance sound while playing extensive chords with sustain pedal. Sounds great.

But I haven't heard that in a Pianoteq demo. Found no material with sustained chords that simply fade out to compare that.
I think what you say it's obvious isn't that much obvious to you. Being a physically modeled piano, Piantoeq is NOT limited to any kind of piano sound. Therefore, even the implemented models have several presets that greatly expand the "sound" of that modeled piano, in many aspects, making it suitable for many different uses.

And if you have the Standard or the Pro version, you can even tweak those presets to your choice. Since it isn't sample based, you are not limited to that sampled sounds, you can go pretty much anywhere you want. I don't know what kind of "Pianoteq demo" you heard, but I can sure you that Pianoteq can sound in many, many different ways.

That said, your mention of a "shimmer resonance sound while playing extensive chords with sustain pedal" is not really helping. Maybe you could post an example of what exactly do you mean by that?

I have an example I usually use to demo pianos, which is the Rachmaninoff Prelude in C sharp Minor Op. 3 No. 2. Don't know if that is suitable to what you look for, but I can post some examples recorded using Pianoteq several models. It has plenty of chords with sustained pedal.
Hi. Yes everything about the technical differences is absolutely clear to me and was before. I have other physical modelled instruments already. I just refered to the sound itself and their differences. In IvoryII you can tweak the resonance and you can chosse how loud/ long the resulting "shimmering" (metallic sounding ringing of the strings) effect resonates till it fades out. It has softsamples that means you can play with the softpedal too. The Sympathetic Resonance (interaction) is great because they don´t have samples, they emulated that with an build in modeled engine. For instance you press permanently down C and on the upper G, the octave and so on (Overtone-Series) you hear the Sympathetic resonance. Sounds really good and makes everything realistic. Plus you have absolutely no building up noise floor. The pedal noise (important part of a pianos sound) sounds great of its own. They sampled a key-release sound and the key-sound itself is convincing too.

The only advantage I see that Pianoteq comes along is the small installation size and the control if you are in sound design and want to transform a piano in something completely else - what is very cool indeed.

I play on a Yamaha grand at my teachers room and tried out a Steinway Grand and I must say, Synthogys IvoryII is very believable. Of course you cannot change one grand to another one :)

Everything I heard from demos concerning Pianoteq is great having in mind its modeled but its also very hard and sterile sounding and in no demo I find a convincing string resonance I really find natural sounding. Its exactly like with LOUNGE LIZARD 4. Its good on its own but away from the real thing. My friend has a Wurlitzer and a Rhodes so I can judge.

I am really unsure if changing now makes sense to me, although I like some things about Pianoteq much. But as a pure Piano emulation...maybe they need more time to make it more natural sounding.

Concerning your sample of Rachmaninoff...I already listened to all the classical demos on their homepage with all the piano-models with Sennheiser HD650.

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