Synapse Audio Minimoog emulation "The Legend" for VST/AU and RE released!

[kmonkey]

Or maybe some of us have better things to do with our limited time than wading through endless screens and tabs to get what we need out of a synth that pointlessly tries to be all things to all people? The whole paradigm is outdated but people with limited thinking still gobble it up so that's what we have to put up with most of the time.

No man you are so wrong on so many levels.

The whole paradigm of "everyone should think/function the same way i am doing" which is exactly what you are doing - is VERY limited and very tunnel visioned.

don't play games now just look how full of judgment you are.I will not be surprised if after so many years you will still chasing that next something but you'll of course say that you are happy with your career which actually never reached what you intimately expected...

Good luck with that man

[EnGee]

On something like The Legend, that would be apparent immediately.

Yes, by clicking on a tab you see the "back" of the gui to reveal the mod matrix etc etc, so its one click.... oh wait, thats the same as Dune

The Legend has only one additional tab which has the mini mod matrix, effects and additional settings. All the parameters are shown in the first main tab.

Dune 1 is better than v2 because at least all the oscillators shown. Still not as good as other synths. The complexity is not an excuse for a bad workflow design!

Take NI Massive. It's not perfect, but the workflow is much more inviting than Dune 2 (and, yes! Before you say it, I'm using Massive much more than Dune 2 mainly because of this). Why? Because I can see all the oscillators/filters and the modulations in one page! I can add one of the 16 or so tabs to it. But still I'm not going crazy clicking on tabs of oscillators, envelopes, ARP, modulations ... etc all the times! It's especially a headache when making a complex preset that needs to connect between several oscillators, filters, lfos, envelopes ... etc!

I don't say put them all on one page, but there should be some balance! Especially in a complex synth. It's a challenge but there are many good examples, so why not take the best of all?

The developer should think of the user workflow and depending on that design the interface. This applies on any software.

Anyway, as I began to depend on making/tweaking more presets, the workflow begins to be very important and I agree with BONES that it can be a deal breaker whatever that synth sounds good.

Back to the Legend and Massive

[AnX]

Dune 1 is better than v2 because at least all the oscillators shown. Still not as good as other synths. The complexity is not an excuse for a bad workflow design!

No.

Dune (all versions) has 8 layers. Try editing each layer in D1. Its all the MM, no visual representation of whats going on.

In D2/3 if i want to see exactly whats goung on in a layer, i select that layer. One click and its all there to see.

D2/3 also has much more complex OSC with a lot of controls that simply wont fit on one page at the same time. Its that simple.

[EnGee]

In D2/3 if i want to see exactly whats goung on in a layer, i select that layer. One click and its all there to see.

Ok, let's see! This is what I get mostly on one page in Dune 2. I mean just compare the amount of info you see with Massive! (Dune 2 came after Massive of course!) :

Dune 2.jpg

and now Massive!

Massive.jpg

They have almost the same size, but Massive manages to fit much more info.

D2/3 also has much more complex OSC with a lot of controls that simply wont fit on one page at the same time. Its that simple.

OK, fair enough. This is for the oscillator (the same applied on Europa), what about other parameters?

See the clever design in Europa, while you can't see all the lfos and Envelopes, you can see thumbnails of them. You can see only one Engine (oscillator) at a time, but you can see the Modulation matrix all the time and even the additional 'normal' filter. I'm not touching the visual feedback even!

Europa.jpg

[recursive one]

I think in terms of workflow Dune 2 is one of the best thought-out synths. It was the first synth I started to program consciously and it taught me a lot because the workflow is very intuitive.

And of course AnX is right, if you don't need more that one layer don't use more than one layer. You can simply use the global unison without tweaking all the voices separately.

[EnGee]

I think in terms of workflow Dune 2 is one of the best thought-out synths. It was the first synth I started to program consciously and it taught me a lot because the workflow is very intuitive.

Good for you! For me, it doesn't do it! I have tried, but I realised that it is annoying to do a lot of tweaking or making my own presets in Dune 2. I have better alternatives (Antidote in Reason is one of them!).

And of course AnX is right, if you don't need more that one layer don't use more than one layer. You can simply use the global unison without tweaking all the voices separately.

I'm talking about one layer in Dune 2 damn it! If it is not programming friendly with one Layer, who is going to use more?!

Edit:
To show my love to Antidote, let's see how sometimes the limitations do make lovely and very inviting design:

Antidote 1.jpg

and the pressing tab, you get this! That it is! Nothing else!

Antidote 2.jpg

[AnX]

Clearly D2 is too complex for some people.

If all the extra features mean you cannot deal with the workflow, use another synth.

The majority of users seem to be happy with it, which is why Synapse have kept it that way.

You would need an imax cinema to use D2/3 with everything visable. I doubt many customers have that option.

Having used Dune since day one, i find it quick and easy to use. Much easier than say zebra for example, which kills my creativity in 5 minutes. But each to his own. Lots of oprions for everyone

[BONES]

No man you are so wrong on so many levels.

Honestly, how likely is that?

The whole paradigm of "everyone should think/function the same way i am doing" which is exactly what you are doing - is VERY limited and very tunnel visioned.

I'm not telling anyone what to do, I'm simply supporting people who see things differently to others on this tired, old forum. It's other people trying to tell us we're wrong and they're right that started all this and are acting as you described.

don't play games now just look how full of judgment you are.

Don't be a fool. Everybody gets judged on every little thing they do, every minute of every day. I'm just honest enough to tell you how you're going. Call it a service.

I will not be surprised if after so many years you will still chasing that next something but you'll of course say that you are happy with your career which actually never reached what you intimately expected...

See what you're doing here? Putting your own outmoded view of the world onto someone else. Why would you assume that "career" is something I would value at all? Because that's the way you've been brought up to think and you are too hidebound to see it for what it is. Then you assume that everyone else is the same. Sorry to disappoint you but I've never had even the slightest interest in any sort of career since I was about 25 (which was in 1983). Maybe you're young enough to change but I'd be surprised if you were brave enough.

[BONES]

Yes, by clicking on a tab you see the "back" of the gui to reveal the mod matrix etc etc, so its one click.... oh wait, thats the same as Dune

It's hard to imagine anyone could actually be as stupid as you are presenting yourself to be at the moment so I'll recap, maybe it might sink in on the second go. You don't need to click anything on The Legend to see all it's envelopes, while one click on the Mod Matrix button in DUNE will only give you some idea where to look. But it's just as likely that multiple envelopes are in use, so it is possible that you will need to many times before you get the right part of the UI up, just so you can increase the decay or decrease the attack, something which shouldn't be any kind of distraction from what you are doing. If you can't see and acknowledge that, then maybe you really are as stupid as you seem.

GUI design seems to still be generally catering for the lowest common denominator and assuming screen real estate is a premium. Many people now have large screens, and when sound designing on a specific VST a lot of people would be happy for the VST to go full screen, whilst a lot of GUI designers are now offering scaling (which is incredibly nessesery) I am surprised that most don’t offer a bigger, different layout where all the controls behind tabs or windows are put on a 1 screen GUI so that everything can be seen and mapped and nothing is hidden. I know UHE did this as an alternative skin for Bazzile but I have seen far to few GUI designers do this, and scaling and full screen modes normally just result in a lot of free space or just bigger existing controls.

It depends on your host. Certainly most hosts give plugin GUIs no thought at all but some do and it's important because everything works together. As I tweak a synth, I might also want to fiddle with the parameters on it's mixer strip, and/or change the setting on the plugins it is being run through. I need to be able to see all of those things at once if I am to work effectively. In my host I can, provided that plugin GUIs don't take up absurd amounts of screen real estate.

Dune (all versions) has 8 layers.

Just because there are 8 layers, doesn't mean you have to use them. DUNE 1 is better in that respect but I still find it tedious.

[bbtr]

Hey BONES, let me spell this out for you: the Legend is simple, DUNE 2 is complex.

Don't like complex things? M-hmm... Life is hard, boyo!

[chk071]

I could do without 8 layers as well, but... Dune 1 also had some architectural issues. E.g. you weren't able to use stereo spread for unison on oscillator level. Dune 2 can do that, and much more. As others, I like the layout and GUI as well.

[Cinebient]

This thread reminds me of....
https://youtu.be/X6I_dKUYyI4

[AnX]

Dune (all versions) has 8 layers.

Just because there are 8 layers, doesn't mean you have to use them.

So you have taken a snippet of what i actually said out of context, and replied to that with EXACTLY THE SAME AS I HAVE SAID SEVERAL TIMES IN THIS THREAD ALREADY

Genius.

As someone who spent years saying how crap hardware is, then turn around and buy a load of really crap hatdware and sing its praises, forgive me if i ignore your tedious rants. They rarely make sense or have any relevance.

Dune2 is too much clicking but having to plug a hardware synth into a computer and open up an editor just to get access to a 4 stage env is fine

You're a joke, feel free to keep amusing me tho

[fluffy_little_something]

Antidote looks nice and inviting. Just the right selection of main controls.
What's the DYAD osc parameter?!

[chk071]

Antidote is Reason only.

DYAD:

DYAD
The DYAD parameter allows to double the entire bank
with all its oscillators and their settings, and transpose
it up by a selectable number of semitones. For example,
if COUNT is set to 5 and DYAD is set to +24,
Antidote would play back 10 oscillators in total. The
first 5 oscillators would run at their regular pitch, the
extra 5 oscillators two octaves higher. This feature is
useful to build chord stabs. It can also come in handy
if one oscillator bank is set to noise and additional
tuned oscillators are needed.

Y U so lazy?