KVR Audio

nichttuntun · Post by **nichttuntun** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:32 am

mcbpete wrote:Woah, you can get your buffer size down to 4 samples ?! Running my DAW at anything below 64 on my system and it's clickedy-click-buffer-underrun time !

No problem

I need tight responses because I am playing a Piano emulation for practicing. I cleaned up my PC totally and everything is relatively fast. Even with 8 buffer size I already feel a great delay-time and I can´t have this as a keyboard/ piano player. Usually I use 6. But 4 is working too.

I think you really can optimize here. DAW and PC. There are hints on the internet how to.

gentleclockdivider · Post by **gentleclockdivider** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:36 pm

Are you telling us that you can hear 4 samples delay latency ?

nichttuntun · Post by **nichttuntun** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:21 pm

gentleclockdivider wrote:Are you telling us that you can hear 4 samples delay latency ?

Hmm. If you say so I would say yes. 6 is okay and 8 is clearly noticeable for me. I am playing (practicing) piano on a Studiologic SL88 grand and I play very fast runs and drills sometimes and yes 8 and above isn't fast enough concerning response time.

gentleclockdivider · Post by **gentleclockdivider** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:33 pm

That you can hear 4ms ( as in milliseconds ) latency , that realistic .
But hearing 4 samples latency , NO ...you can't ...seriously ..at 44khz , 4 samples = 0.1 milliseconds .

https://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_index.php
and here's a 1ms delay test ( that's 44 samples ) , and you're saying you can even recognize smaller delays
https://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_t ... php?time=1
Scroll down for the actual test , let us know how many you've got right .

nichttuntun · Post by **nichttuntun** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:53 am

Hi. Can´t compare such an audio test with just real playing on a keyboard. As a keyboarder/ piano player you get very sensitive over time for every small response and their corresponding sound-behavoir.

gentleclockdivider · Post by **gentleclockdivider** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:49 pm

Well I am prety sure you meant 4 milliseconds latency instead of 4 samples .
Four samples at 44k that is 0,1 milliseconds or 100 microseconds.
No way a human is able to hear that ,

nichttuntun · Post by **nichttuntun** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:04 pm

Maybe

I just can refer to what we talked about and that was the buffer size setting of the Focusrite audio interface.

mcbpete · Post by **mcbpete** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:17 pm

Ah does it look like this:

Because if so yeah the slider increments are in ms rather than samples (so a 8ms timing at 44.1khz would be somewhere between 64 and 128 samples)

nichttuntun · Post by **nichttuntun** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:21 pm

I only see the text "buffer size" and the numbers to choose from. There is nothing said about seconds or else.

mcbpete · Post by **mcbpete** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:34 pm

Is it like this one then, as if so that is indeed measured in samples (and if so am surprised you managed to set it to '6' as I always thought it had to be set to something with a power of 2):

nichttuntun · Post by **nichttuntun** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:29 pm

Hi. I made a preset demo-track with AuroraFM. I really like the synth, has cool features DEXED has not and it sounds nice.

Here some info for the track, and please don´t care about the composition too much. It´s done fast to demonstrate the Synth:

It only contains 3 presets.

a)
a very simple Sine-Wave synth for the background. The sound at the beginning and the end is the same preset played in very high octave.
b)
a Pluckbell Sound which evolves in the crazy FM modulation madness while sustaining and if notes are pressed only a bit longer, the plug gets some aftersweep overtones.
c)
a string which sounds a bit like an old Melotron vocal string. I call it "radio string", reminds me a bit of an old radio transmission from a soundsource made in the 20th.

I used delay and a little reverb from AuroraFM on the Bellpluck
I used the AuroraFM Chorus on the radio string
I used the Aurora Reverb on the SineWave String
The modulation was exclusively done in the plugin

Extern EFX used:
a minimum of Valhallhas Plate Reverb on the RadioString.
U-he SATIN was used on the stereo sum for rounder edges. Have fun.

https://soundcloud.com/user-564309669/a ... -my-pocket

*** PLEASE SUPPORT THE DEV - he is cool und helpful ***

RyFi · Post by **RyFi** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:40 pm

mcbpete wrote:Is it like this one then, as if so that is indeed measured in samples (and if so am surprised you managed to set it to '6' as I always thought it had to be set to something with a power of 2):

You're not the only one who's surprised! I always thought buffer sizes had to be powers of two, but in developing this VST I realized that this is definitely not the case. It seems that the majority of ASIO drivers adhere to powers of two, but some use multiples of 8 samples, and yet others have no buffer size constraints at all. For DirectSound, WDM, and (I think) WASAPI drivers, most appear to use buffer sizes based on integer ms of latency, and thus they could be any number of samples, even or odd. When developing a VST, you must therefore expect that any possible buffer size could be requested. Would've been nice to know that earlier rather than later....

RyFi · Post by **RyFi** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:45 pm

nichttuntun wrote:Hi. I made a preset demo-track with AuroraFM. I really like the synth, has cool features DEXED has not and it sounds nice.

Here some info for the track, and please don´t care about the composition too much. It´s done fast to demonstrate the Synth:

It only contains 3 presets.

a)
a very simple Sine-Wave synth for the background. The sound at the beginning and the end is the same preset played in very high octave.
b)
a Pluckbell Sound which evolves in the crazy FM modulation madness while sustaining and if notes are pressed only a bit longer, the plug gets some aftersweep overtones.
c)
a string which sounds a bit like an old Melotron vocal string. I call it "radio string", reminds me a bit of an old radio transmission from a soundsource made in the 20th.

I used delay and a little reverb from AuroraFM on the Bellpluck
I used the AuroraFM Chorus on the radio string
I used the Aurora Reverb on the SineWave String
The modulation was exclusively done in the plugin

Extern EFX used:
a minimum of Valhallhas Plate Reverb on the RadioString.
U-he SATIN was used on the stereo sum for rounder edges. Have fun.

https://soundcloud.com/user-564309669/a ... -my-pocket

*** PLEASE SUPPORT THE DEV - he is cool und helpful ***

Very cool! Thanks for sharing that.

I realllly like your Radio String patch and agree that it definitely has a bit of the Mellotron Voice sound, which I totally love! That must've been tricky to synthesize. Cool use of modulation too.

nichttuntun · Post by **nichttuntun** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:09 pm

Thank you. It's a cool synth

In FM it is still a bit try and error and you can always come out with totally surprising new results when you find the sweetspot. Save and from there you develop further. That's what I love about it, besides the sound of course. And that's what I call intuitive and inspiring while just doing it. FM based one sine waves is just awesome (In fact its phase distortion). Listen to the end where the fade out has this mega mellow sine sound sweep... something no other synthesis can do in that way.

The modulation features are great although I could have needed another LFO to make the modulation a further step less static (it's in fact not static while one LFO modulates another LFO and so the timing changes over time) but what is already there is very useful. I really hope that it will be a big thing for many people so you can further develop and improve your VST. Would be so great. Maybe in some years a version 2.0 comes out? Would pay full price for it.

But hey guys, 11 Canadian dollars is a steal.

Wish you all the best.

RyFi · Post by **RyFi** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:53 pm

nichttuntun wrote:Thank you. It's a cool synth

In FM it is still a bit try and error and you can always come out with totally surprising new results. That's what I love about it, besides the sound of course. And that's what I call intuitive and inspiring while just doing it. FM based one sine waves is just awesome (In fact its phase distortion). Listen to the end where the fade out has this mega mellow sine sound sweep... something no other synthesis can do in that way.

Thank you, and agreed!

The modulation features are great although I could have needed another LFO to make the modulation a further step less static (it's in fact not static while one LFO modulates another LFO and so the timing changes over time) but what is already there is very useful. I really hope that it will be a big thing for many people so you can further develop and improve your VST. Would be so great. Maybe in some years a version 2.0 comes out? Would pay full price for it.

Sure, another LFO would always be nice... but that would seriously mess up my layout, and to a lesser extent my colour scheme. I wish I was kidding, but that's the honest truth! There's no more room for another mod source on the operator window in the 3 col x 2 row layout.

If this was a big thing and I could continue to seriously develop and improve Aurora FM, that would be my dream. It's incredibly unlikely, however.

But hey guys, 11 Canadian dollars is a steal.

Wish you all the best.

Actually it's $17 Canadian.... and only for a short while longer. See the next post...

Aurora FM - New Win(32/64) VSTi FM synthesizer - Introductory pricing