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mgw38
KVRian
 
942 posts since 26 Jul, 2015, from Philadelphia

Postby mgw38; Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:44 am Re: 8DIO - stay away from them!

Well, if it has anything to do with the system, it must be something related to memory access. CPU load is so low, it isn‘t even worth mentioning. Do you have any additional background services running that negatively impact memory access? Acronis Active Protection has a massive influence on Kontakt performance, for instance. I seriously could not reproduce the issue at the level you are demonstrating in the video. I‘m on a Mac as well and my system is not nearly as powerful as yours.

topaz wrote:It’s certainly not performance.

Mac Pro 12 core, 32gb, SSD.


mgw38 wrote:The intensity of this discussion got me interested, especially since this library has excellent reviews from people who really know the subject. I tried to recreate the issue but couldn't. I do get a slight randomness in the Pizzicato Cellos at superhuman speed but that is gone as soon as a freeze the track. And it is not really anything that I find problematic because it happens at speeds you would not want to play with "real" instruments anyway. Seems more that the scripting engine is not able to keep up. So it is either the system performance, or an issue with the Kontakt script, or - most likely - a combination of the two that causes the OP's issues. Just my observation. Feel free to prove me wrong.
mcbpete
KVRian
 
1109 posts since 24 Jun, 2006, from London, England

Postby mcbpete; Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:12 am Re: 8DIO - stay away from them!

mgw38 wrote:I do get a slight randomness in the Pizzicato Cellos at superhuman speed but that is gone as soon as a freeze the track.
Topaz: Have you tried this yet - Definitely will rule out some things ....
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topaz
KVRAF
 
4177 posts since 14 Jul, 2001, from Holmfirth, West Yorkshire, U.K

Postby topaz; Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:02 am Re: 8DIO - stay away from them!

No, I run hefty libraries in kontakt and play, this is an 8DIO round problem with their scripts.

I have no performance issues with kontakt.

Please post a video using the same patch using a fast 16th note ostinato.

Thanks in advance.


mgw38 wrote:Well, if it has anything to do with the system, it must be something related to memory access. CPU load is so low, it isn‘t even worth mentioning. Do you have any additional background services running that negatively impact memory access? Acronis Active Protection has a massive influence on Kontakt performance, for instance. I seriously could not reproduce the issue at the level you are demonstrating in the video. I‘m on a Mac as well and my system is not nearly as powerful as yours.

topaz wrote:It’s certainly not performance.

Mac Pro 12 core, 32gb, SSD.


mgw38 wrote:The intensity of this discussion got me interested, especially since this library has excellent reviews from people who really know the subject. I tried to recreate the issue but couldn't. I do get a slight randomness in the Pizzicato Cellos at superhuman speed but that is gone as soon as a freeze the track. And it is not really anything that I find problematic because it happens at speeds you would not want to play with "real" instruments anyway. Seems more that the scripting engine is not able to keep up. So it is either the system performance, or an issue with the Kontakt script, or - most likely - a combination of the two that causes the OP's issues. Just my observation. Feel free to prove me wrong.
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topaz
KVRAF
 
4177 posts since 14 Jul, 2001, from Holmfirth, West Yorkshire, U.K

Postby topaz; Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:05 am Re: 8DIO - stay away from them!

Will try when I return to studio.

Ps, I found an issue with a project Sam instrument.they sent me a fix the same day.

And there is the difference with 8DIO

mcbpete wrote:
mgw38 wrote:I do get a slight randomness in the Pizzicato Cellos at superhuman speed but that is gone as soon as a freeze the track.
Topaz: Have you tried this yet - Definitely will rule out some things ....
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mgw38
KVRian
 
942 posts since 26 Jul, 2015, from Philadelphia

Postby mgw38; Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:15 am Re: 8DIO - stay away from them!

Well, it depends on the issue, I guess. I haven’t tried it but I would think you could also create that issue by turning off automatic delay latency compensation.

8Dio has a tendency to be on the - for the lack of a better word - arrogant end of things. I give you that. But their products are usually stellar. I just wish they would stop the watermarking approach and do Kontakt Player libraries instead. That way this would never have gotten to that point because they could just deactivate the serial and reverse the purchase.

topaz wrote:Will try when I return to studio.

Ps, I found an issue with a project Sam instrument.they sent me a fix the same day.

And there is the difference with 8DIO

mcbpete wrote:
mgw38 wrote:I do get a slight randomness in the Pizzicato Cellos at superhuman speed but that is gone as soon as a freeze the track.
Topaz: Have you tried this yet - Definitely will rule out some things ....
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jancivil
KVRAF
 
14725 posts since 20 Oct, 2007, from No Location

Postby jancivil; Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:54 am Re: 8DIO - stay away from them!

I have a fair amount of experience making a strings library result into something I actually want in the audio editor, but if I was paying significant money and still needing to do that I would know better than to keep giving a developer or vendor my money.

I don't know why freezing would change the fact of what's in that video. That seems like magical thinking to me: are you going to magically freeze a snapshot in time of a round robin result and voila? Am I missing something technically about freezing? I'd be surprised.
I'm not at all likely to experience that library so that's all I have to go on, and in that not-terrifically-fast ostinato there appears to be a round robin botch of some sort. Speed does not seem to be the problem.

It's supposed to a product of delay compensation? I do doubt that. It's asserted to be the same thing in Ableton Live and in Cubase which have, last I noticed from reports here anyway, differently-behaving compensation mechanisms. As a fix that's going pretty far in my estimation.

Maybe this is just me but the answer seems to be more 'use something else' than :bang: til you die.
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mgw38
KVRian
 
942 posts since 26 Jul, 2015, from Philadelphia

Postby mgw38; Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:23 pm Re: 8DIO - stay away from them!

Just saying that I could not reproduce the issue without going superhuman speed. Certainly not at the level the OP is reporting.
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topaz
KVRAF
 
4177 posts since 14 Jul, 2001, from Holmfirth, West Yorkshire, U.K

Postby topaz; Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:10 pm Re: 8DIO - stay away from them!

Again please post a video using a 16th ostinato spicatto cello at a standard 160bpm.

Cheers.

mgw38 wrote:Just saying that I could not reproduce the issue without going superhuman speed. Certainly not at the level the OP is reporting.
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jancivil
KVRAF
 
14725 posts since 20 Oct, 2007, from No Location

Postby jancivil; Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:30 pm Re: 8DIO - stay away from them!

We're posting at sort of cross-purposes: randomness = round robin. So freezing means no randomness because you've frozen it. What I mean by my earlier post is that doesn't do anything for the round robin issue.

So, again, I can't test it and I only have a video and now some typing to go by. I've done more here to understand it than probably anyone contacted at 8DIO is the whole thing for me. I have had a couple of things that were good and looked at some things in other setups which were bizarre, and I have looked closely at things of interest and was entirely turned-off by their weird, weird, weird interface ideas. In addition to too many reports of sloppy work.

I wanted that frame drum, in fact I had it installed but the computer was stolen so my account was. It really sounds good; but no, the guy deemed me the culprit and didn't care to hear about the fact that everybody else (well, nearly) found out I was telling the truth. I didn't have any history to point to with 8DIO like all my receipts going back to 2007 with SonicCouture for instance; and now I never will. But I didn't have much history with iLok either but I got someone that listened to me as I verified through my larger story. It's a culture of dickishness (and overarching greed) is what I get over the years from Troels and co.
GearNostalgia
KVRist
 
179 posts since 27 Dec, 2017

Postby GearNostalgia; Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:53 pm Re: 8DIO - stay away from them!

Here it is. My first video of this kind. A video I never wanted to make and hope I will never have to make another.

This is how I experience 8Dio Lacrimosa. Judge for yourself if it is what you expect from a 600 dollar retail product.

https://youtu.be/xVT56u8vcro
Armagibbon
KVRian
 
666 posts since 20 Apr, 2017

Postby Armagibbon; Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:27 am Re: 8DIO - stay away from them!

Not hearin the whistles in there but the levels are f*ckin shit. All the same mod and velocity goin thru all that? Man thats wack...
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mgw38
KVRian
 
942 posts since 26 Jul, 2015, from Philadelphia

Postby mgw38; Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:51 am Re: 8DIO - stay away from them!

jancivil wrote:I wanted that frame drum, in fact I had it installed but the computer was stolen so my account was. It really sounds good; but no, the guy deemed me the culprit and didn't care to hear about the fact that everybody else (well, nearly) found out I was telling the truth.


Yeah, I get that. 8Dio spends way to much time and energy chasing pirated copies and blaming people for distributing them. No argument there.

I once had a little run-in with them as well. One of the libraries I bought from them disappeared from my account at 8Dio. When I asked them to put it back into my account they required me to provide proof of purchase through an invoice. I thought that was weird given that the invoice they insisted I send them was issued by them in the first place. Did not give me a lot of confidence in their bookkeeping. ;)

Can't test the Lacrimosa issue as I do not have that library.

Edit: After watching the video, I get the complaint. Although I am not quite sure if I would want a choir library to be robotically quantized. But this is not something I have a lot of experience in.
Last edited by mgw38 on Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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mgw38
KVRian
 
942 posts since 26 Jul, 2015, from Philadelphia

Postby mgw38; Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:12 am Re: 8DIO - stay away from them!

topaz wrote:Again please post a video using a 16th ostinato spicatto cello at a standard 160bpm.


Calling that standard is a bit of a stretch imho. It is certainly not standard in classical music ("Flight of the Bumblebee" is in 144bpm). In all honesty, I doubt that the library was designed for that speed. If you want to do the Hans Zimmer type ostinatos you need something specifically produced for that. Adagietto is a fairly old, relatively inexpensive library (currently on sale for 48$). There are now libraries that can deal with this speed much better.
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topaz
KVRAF
 
4177 posts since 14 Jul, 2001, from Holmfirth, West Yorkshire, U.K

Postby topaz; Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:50 am Re: 8DIO - stay away from them!

I certainly paid a lot more than that for mine, maybe the massive price drop from $399 is enough proof for any sensible onlooker how 8DIO operate.

Ps, the issue is a flaw in the scripting of the round robbins, once reduced to 8 or 4 the issue is fixed.

So why couldn’t they do that ?

mgw38 wrote: (currently on sale for 48$). There are now libraries that can deal with this speed much better.
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mgw38
KVRian
 
942 posts since 26 Jul, 2015, from Philadelphia

Postby mgw38; Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:09 pm Re: 8DIO - stay away from them!

topaz wrote:I certainly paid a lot more than that for mine, maybe the massive price drop from $399 is enough proof for any sensible onlooker how 8DIO operate.


I paid 119$ for it 18 months ago. I think they more or less retired that product line after they released Anthology last year.
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