Kontakt Instrument Library Creation - Articulations

[RajKVR]

Hello! I have been trying to make a Kontakt Library (currently working on flute) and I am facing some problems which I hope to find solution for from here.

It's easy to make sustain and staccato but I would also like to add other articulations and I am struggling with that. Firstly, I'm confused whether to record samples with articulations or to create them artificially through various modulation and scripting. I would like to add trills and flutter for it but I'm not quite sure how to go about doing that. Even if I were to record a sample, I would have to set loop marks to elongate it so the question is, for how long do I ask the flutist/flautist to play? Or to take a different path, would it at all be feasible (given that it's possible) to create an illusion of such artificially by using the regular samples? Additionally, are there scripts available ready to use for such?

It's unfortunate that even in this modern day of digital media, people who have mastered the craft refrain from imparting their knowledge, which can be done through video courses on say Masterclass or on other platform such as Udemy and even books.

[funky lime]

Some devs record "measured" trills and trems. They have the player play to a click track at one or two tempos, and then use time stretching within Kontakt for playback so the end user can get the trills or trems to sync to host tempo. I would think one bar (4 beats) would be enough for this, but you could always do more (keeping in mind it will increase the size of the library).

As for flutter tonguing, that seems up to the performer entirely. Either they can do it or they can't.

You can get away with faking some stuff via scripting, like how some devs do to simulate swells, crescendos, etc. And there are a few developers that even do a simulated con sordino for strings, using EQ/filters. You can also get away with using envelopes to simulate various differences in short articulations (staccato, staccatissimo, spiccato, marcato, etc) but purists will generally notice this. I personally feel it's best to either record the articulation properly or omit it entirely, so that you can focus more on a few powerful features rather than trying to do it all.

There is Big Bob's WIPS (wind instrument performance suite) script that is free. It's a bit old school, but you can do stuff like simulated legato with it. (Download link, as it is 404 on original site).

I'm quite new to the sampling/scripting side of things myself, so I'm sure there are plenty of more qualified people here that can help you out. Also, VI-Control has a great forum for this; if you're unfamiliar, that whole forum is more focused on virtual instruments and sample libraries, leaning toward orchestral and cinematic stuff.

[EvilDragon]

Regarding trills and flutter, sample them, don't emulate them. Tell the flutist to hold them out as long as he can - this will give you longest possible samples and more chance to find a good loop there.

[jancivil]

would it at all be feasible (given that it's possible) to create an illusion of such artificially by using the regular samples? Additionally, are there scripts available ready to use for such?

The regular samples? A trill is legato by definition. There is a script to fake legato around, I forget if it's a Big Bob or a Nils Liberg script, but it exists to address older libraries lacking vibrato. There are libraries with fake legato which is I suppose more or less the same idea. I have libraries, VSL which provide trills, usually I'll use the fast legato and play trills. I don't know about that with fake legato, a negative selling point for me generally.

Maybe you want to address legato before you get into trills. But no_not try to fake flutter tongue, there's nothing regular about that one.

[bigcat1969]

Dunno if it helps in anyway, but you are welcome to look at / use anything in my little attempts at shells. The WIPS, Modwheel and Ensemble scripts have rights retained to their owners as listed in each script, everything else is CC0/PD.

http://bigcatinstruments.blogspot.com/2 ... estra.html

[RajKVR]

Thank you all for your suggestions. I think I'll try both the methods. I'll record the samples and try to work with loops. And I'll also emulate it artificially to see which works best.

[RajKVR]

The regular samples? A trill is legato by definition. There is a script to fake legato around, I forget if it's a Big Bob or a Nils Liberg script, but it exists to address older libraries lacking vibrato. There are libraries with fake legato which is I suppose more or less the same idea. I have libraries, VSL which provide trills, usually I'll use the fast legato and play trills. I don't know about that with fake legato, a negative selling point for me generally.

I believe it's a Big Bob script. I too have been planning to basically fake the legato because I don't know how I'd go about recording an actual legato and making it work. By regular samples, I meant the sustained notes as they can be modified to act like many articulations such as staccato, pizzicato, crescendo etc.

Jut for the record, I'm only a student (fresher) so I'm very new to all this. I learn more by trial and error than anything else because I just can't find any material regarding sampling. I bought two books on DSP but they are written more from the perspective of a sound designer and engineer and mostly talk about sound synthesis, although there's a brief chapter about physics-based modelling of instruments. But they are mostly about how Serum works. Would you please tell me about recording legato samples and extending them?

[RajKVR]

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Dunno if it helps in anyway, but you are welcome to look at / use anything in my little attempts at shells. The WIPS, Modwheel and Ensemble scripts have rights retained to their owners as listed in each script, everything else is CC0/PD.

http://bigcatinstruments.blogspot.com/2 ... estra.html (http://bigcatinstruments.blogspot.com/2017/10/sketching-chamber-orchestra.html)

This is great! Thank you for sharing this! I'll go through it thoroughly.

[jancivil]

The regular samples? A trill is legato by definition. There is a script to fake legato around, I forget if it's a Big Bob or a Nils Liberg script, but it exists to address older libraries lacking vibrato. There are libraries with fake legato which is I suppose more or less the same idea. I have libraries, VSL which provide trills, usually I'll use the fast legato and play trills. I don't know about that with fake legato, a negative selling point for me generally.

I believe it's a Big Bob script. I too have been planning to basically fake the legato because I don't know how I'd go about recording an actual legato and making it work. By regular samples, I meant the sustained notes as they can be modified to act like many articulations such as staccato, pizzicato, crescendo etc.

Jut for the record, I'm only a student (fresher) so I'm very new to all this. I learn more by trial and error than anything else because I just can't find any material regarding sampling. I bought two books on DSP but they are written more from the perspective of a sound designer and engineer and mostly talk about sound synthesis, although there's a brief chapter about physics-based modelling of instruments. But they are mostly about how Serum works. Would you please tell me about recording legato samples and extending them?

I don't know how my hand got away with typing 'vibrato' when I was talking about legato. Probably you knew what I meant, but jesus.

I figured you meant sus samples. I think you'll be on a chase to nowhere trying to fabricate a good trill out of that is what I was driving at there. You can cut away at that to get a kinda sorta staccato, I don't know how a pizz comes out of that. I wouldn't care much for a faked dynamic such as fpf, I'm used to that being sampled rather than doing a volume swell basically. But I care a lot about a convincing or realistic effect.

Legato sampling *has* to be recording the transition, ie., pairs of notes. You can do a sus legato which is looped, but legato itself does not have to be sustained.

I'm just a musician with a *little* bit of knowledge. Here's something:

http://pietrorossellini.github.io/work/legato-sampling/

then there's different kinds of legato: how the transition works, what is the attack for the first of the two, there are on strings 'slurred' legato which is like a guitar hammer-on/pull-off basically vs a bowed (very crucial basic distinction), a portamento, slid up the fingerboard legato (and there's more than one type here)...
And portamento for a trumpet (which I understand better than woodwinds practically) may involve half-valving.
Clarinet portamento is a trick as well... we're really getting into the weeds now, though.

Then there'll be product design such as the coherence with use of other articulations going to legato in addition to the aforementioned sus legato hybrid.

And drawing limits as to performance practice, how far do you really need to go for your purpose.
Trumpet presents problems different than say clarinet or sax.

[bigcat1969]

If KVR will forgive me, some of us crazy freebie dev/sampler guys hang out at
http://scoringcentral.mattiaswestlund.net/

I'm sure they will be helpful if you have questions about sampling and creating instruments.