ZYNAPTIQ Intensity

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
zynaptiq
KVRist
293 posts since 13 Jan, 2012 from In the studio, in front of computer.

Post Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:08 pm

jbarish wrote:Demoing now on the MB of some existing mixes. It seems pretty heavy handed initally when used in a chain with other processors. Despite the marketing hyperbole, you can definitely hear compression going on.
It's definitely not the most efficient use of INTENSITY if you use it when you're already pushing your chain.

I typically start from scratch. Most of the time I like settings for INTENSITY of around 0.2.

It does compress in the sense that it reduces dynamic range (by bringing up low-level information). It does not, however, compare the RMS to a threshold and then reduce gain according to attack ,release and ratio settings. So when you say "you can hear compression", you are either hearing pumping that is already present but inaudibly low in level (and is being brought up by the algorithm), or you mean that the dynamic range is changed...right?
Zynaptiq - Audio Software Based On Artificial Intelligence Technology, makers of PITCHMAP: Real-Time Polyphonic Pitch Correction And Mapping.

kiezum
KVRist
461 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Re: ZYNAPTIQ Intensify

Post Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:09 pm

The Zynaptiq plugins I have (Adaptiverb, Morph 2, Wormhole and Pitchmap) aren't the most transparent effects. They are excellent sounddesign tools.

Intensify is probably some kind of spectral dynamics processor. But you can "intensify" audio more transparent with the intelligent EQ's (Gullfoss), dynamic EQ, Multiband compressors and even some saturation plugins.

I am more interested in their vocoder. When will that be released?

zynaptiq
KVRist
293 posts since 13 Jan, 2012 from In the studio, in front of computer.

Re: ZYNAPTIQ Intensify

Post Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:24 pm

Caine123 wrote: A volume compensation would be goid
That's what the LVL COMP does - it compensates the level change introduced by the INTENSITY knob.

You will note – when measuring – that on full mixes or signals with similar dynamics and absolute level (which the LVL COMP is calibrated to), the LUFS actually doesn't change significantly at all.

That said, it does NOT compensate for the BIAS, DRY/WET or SATURATE functions. It's not a simple linear process like a compressor or EQ, hence it isn't quite possible to predict the precise amount of level change created over the entire plugin.

Another thing to keep in mind – are you looking for a LEVEL compensation (means: same meter readings) or a SUBJECTIVE VOLUME compensation? The deal with the plugin is exactly that it can increase subjective loudness while retaining somewhat similar "electric" levels, so compensating for what the plugin does seems a little strange to me, no ;-)
Zynaptiq - Audio Software Based On Artificial Intelligence Technology, makers of PITCHMAP: Real-Time Polyphonic Pitch Correction And Mapping.

zynaptiq
KVRist
293 posts since 13 Jan, 2012 from In the studio, in front of computer.

Re: ZYNAPTIQ Intensify

Post Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:26 pm

TIMT wrote:Can definitely hear amplitude modulation in that example.
If you mean our video, and specifically the first full mix example – that's the amplitude modulation that's already there that is now showing more clearly because we're boosting the details by crazy amounts. We're processing a mix that was already mastered (to extremely hot levels, by the way...).
Zynaptiq - Audio Software Based On Artificial Intelligence Technology, makers of PITCHMAP: Real-Time Polyphonic Pitch Correction And Mapping.

zynaptiq
KVRist
293 posts since 13 Jan, 2012 from In the studio, in front of computer.

Re: ZYNAPTIQ Intensify

Post Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:29 pm

DJ Warmonger wrote:Volume compensation or it didn't happen. Turning sound louder is not a big achivement on its own ;)

It a multi-band compression with smiley curve, or is there something more to it?
You apparently didn't try the plugin as A) it *has* level compensation for the main function (but not subjective loudness compensation as making things louder is what it's all about), and B) making stuff a lot louder while keeping levels as well as LUFS similar IS a big deal :D
Zynaptiq - Audio Software Based On Artificial Intelligence Technology, makers of PITCHMAP: Real-Time Polyphonic Pitch Correction And Mapping.

zynaptiq
KVRist
293 posts since 13 Jan, 2012 from In the studio, in front of computer.

Re: ZYNAPTIQ Intensify

Post Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:45 am

jbarish wrote:It might work better on a MB bus with fewer processors or when mixing into from scratch.
Actually, this. While INTENSITY can improve even mastered tracks – we've been prototyping on that basis –it is good advice to start tabula rasa – It's a new type of tool, so adding it to an existing chain that is already doing a lot to your signal is not the ideal approach. I recommend not using it in ADDITION TO your regular chain, but INSTEAD OF – then bringing in other components as (if) needed. Depending on your source and desired results, INTENSITY can pretty much replace eq, compression, multiband stuff in one go. If you compare it to your regularmultibandmasteringtoolofchoicethathastwohundredparameters you may be pleasantly surprised... 8)
Zynaptiq - Audio Software Based On Artificial Intelligence Technology, makers of PITCHMAP: Real-Time Polyphonic Pitch Correction And Mapping.

Caine123
KVRAF
5330 posts since 5 Aug, 2009

Re: ZYNAPTIQ Intensify

Post Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:52 am

thx i have to read your posts zynaptiq :). i sadly have to go asap but i tried some presets and this one i dunno i need to understand this plugin atm more cause the following example totally destroys my snappy snare and gives more presence but it sounds if reverb was added? also the hihats sounds bad now in my opinion, for subtle enhancements

dry:
https://clyp.it/yyaso4dv

wet:
https://clyp.it/spcax4tu

settings
Image


i also tried the subtle settings preset and it was not really subtle :P
i wanna get this product cause it's from zynaptiq but im not convinced yet, i test it on finished mixes later and wanna see what settings suit well (subtely)
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User avatar
martinjuenke
KVRAF
2349 posts since 28 Dec, 2015 from Germany

Re: ZYNAPTIQ Intensify

Post Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:15 am

After AB-ing some of my stuff I have to admit that I'm quite impressed.
Some pre-settings are indeed over the top.
But there is more than OneKnobFitsAll, it made for me a big difference which Bias curve I chose for example.
I like it more subtly, therefore I played it on lower levels of Intensity and Dry/Wet.
And that worked astonishing well.
The best (and to be honest the sine qua non) is that the targeted and already realised 14 LUFS in my mixes remain more or less unchanged.
So this thing can be used as a final polishing tool (with assistance of honest AB-ing).
Sigh!
Once again an unplanned investment...

Flowing atmospheric music
http://www.sonoryth.bandcamp.com/music

sircuit
KVRian
525 posts since 15 Jul, 2016

Re: ZYNAPTIQ Intensify

Post Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:27 am

At a first glance, on club songs (techno-house) with not much going in the background it does something (what is supposed to, I assume). However, when feeding some disco classics or more complex dance music, it brings out harshness of the cymbals, unwanted background elements (like smooth rides) and really messes up the transients.

ATM except for messing with the transients, I'm really not sure that this plugin can do something my (rather small) TDR master chain can't.

I also don't understand the LVL comp: 2.5 more LU at the output compared to input is not compensation. Neither the peak is the same (0 dB peaks at input result in clips at the output).

(owner of Adaptiverb and Wormhole here)
 MacBook Pro Quad-Core _ macOS High Sierra __ ♫ Logic Pro X

marzelli
KVRist
32 posts since 13 May, 2018

Re: ZYNAPTIQ Intensify

Post Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:37 am

sircuit wrote:I also don't understand the LVL comp: 2.5 more LU at the output compared to input is not compensation. Neither the peak is the same (0 dB peaks at input result in clips at the output).
Me neither. Even for tools that make loudness the comparison in equal volume is necessary (we want to here how the plugin alters the sound!). Tried it also on some acoustic stuff and it becomes very unnatural very quick. Seems to be more focused on single edm elements than master or natural stuff.

Caine123
KVRAF
5330 posts since 5 Aug, 2009

Re: ZYNAPTIQ Intensify

Post Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:21 am

does anyone have good experience so far in a mastering chain?

e.g. you think your master is done what BIAS would you choose? with minor changes i can already hear some in my opinion changes i dont like so far but i guess i use it wrong, i will make AB's later when back.
DAW FL Studio Audio Interface Focusrite Scarlett 1st Gen 2i2 CPU Intel i7-7700K 4.20 GHz, RAM 32 GB Dual-Channel DDR4 @2400MHz Corsair Vengeance. MB Asus Prime Z270-K, GPU Gainward 1070 GTX GS 8GB NT Be Quiet DP 550W OS Win10 64Bit

mcbpete
KVRian
1232 posts since 24 Jun, 2006 from London, England

Re: ZYNAPTIQ Intensify

Post Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:39 am

Denis from Zynaptiq said this on Gearslutz regarding its using on the Mastering chain:
In general, one bit of advice would be to not try to use INTENSITY in addition to all the usual tools with all their usual settings – start with using it INSTEAD of the other stuff, then gradually bring things back in. Basically, judge it in its own terms. It's a new kind of processor, a re-think will open it up much more.
Eeek, not sure whether I need this or is just my GAS mind working overtime. I've Noveltech Character which I saw was mentioned earlier in the thread - Are they comparable or is it an entirely different genus of spherical fruit ?

zynaptiq
KVRist
293 posts since 13 Jan, 2012 from In the studio, in front of computer.

Re: ZYNAPTIQ Intensify

Post Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:08 am

level loudness volume
Thank you for the questions – I'll try to clarify.

I do, however, recommend reading the manual as a starting point :D

The LVL COMP affects the main INTENSITY control only, and compensates the LEVEL, not the LOUDNESS (which is an entirely different metric). The compensation is valid for around 60% of the INTENSITY knob travel, outside of that range the signal dependent nature of the algorithm makes accurate level predictions pretty much impossible so it may be slightly off, depending what you throw at it. BIAS, DRY-WET and GAIN (including when using the saturation) are not compensated for.

The output mode "SATURATE" is a soft-kee saturating limiter that starts working at -3dBFS and that automatically makes that gain up.

The LVL COMP is actually "calibrated" on LUFS *assuming an input type that is modern music with a moderate level range of -20 to a maximum of around -10 LUFS* (so basically: stuff that hasn't already been flattened out). Outside of these ranges, behavior may still be consistent, but some degree of deviation is expected.

If you set the plugin up with this information in mind (so for example, when using BIAS, using it subtractively only), you'll find that peak as well as LUFS stay remarkably consistent while a lot of subjective loudness is gained. In some cases, we've observed the LUFS actually going DOWN while the loudness went UP. Which makes sense if you think about it.

The range on the INTENSITY is huge so that the plugin can work with a broad range of sources. The recommended range is 0...50%, and even that is a LOT. I typically end up at around 0.2 to 0.35.

If your input peaks are already full-scale – why not use the plugin before your other stuff when there's still dynamic range to work with? If the input has for example two consecutive fullscale words, and we add a third, your DAW may show a clip...which would be rather meaningless as compared to the "before". Lower level to plugin or output gain by 0.00001 db, done :D

sircuit wrote:I also don't understand the LVL comp: 2.5 more LU at the output compared to input is not compensation. Neither the peak is the same (0 dB peaks at input result in clips at the output).
Please see above, but LUFS is not LEVEL, it is LOUDNESS. A LEVEL compensation looks at the "electrical" levels. The idea of the plugin being to increase LOUNDNESS while keeping LEVELS the same or similar. Hence, it makes no sense to "compensate" for the loundness - what you hear is what you get.
sircuit wrote:when feeding some disco classics or more complex dance music, it brings out harshness of the cymbals, unwanted background elements (like smooth rides)
I test it with a lot of disco and and dance, I can not confirm that there's a general issue. If the DETAILS of your audio are things you don't want to hear...then why boost them in the first place? Sounds to me like you're expecting something that the plugn isn't – which wouldn't be unusual as the plugin is a new TYPE of processor, so nobody really KNOWS what to expect of it :D It brings out what's there.
Tried it also on some acoustic stuff and it becomes very unnatural very quick.
With what settings and what material? What exactly does "very unnatural" mean, or "very quick"? It's actually EXCELLENT for acoustic stuff IMHO. Try setting INTENSITY to .2, saturate off, no bias. If you CRANK the intensity then first, the weaknesses of your convertors and preamps may start showing, and secondly, yes, you may be adding unnatural amounts of detail.

"Operate the plugin with one control" doesn't mean that you can't set that one control to be too much or too little. That'd be a NO CONTROLS plugin 8)
Zynaptiq - Audio Software Based On Artificial Intelligence Technology, makers of PITCHMAP: Real-Time Polyphonic Pitch Correction And Mapping.

zynaptiq
KVRist
293 posts since 13 Jan, 2012 from In the studio, in front of computer.

Re: ZYNAPTIQ Intensify

Post Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:10 am

mcbpete wrote: Eeek, not sure whether I need this or is just my GAS mind working overtime. I've Noveltech Character which I saw was mentioned earlier in the thread - Are they comparable or is it an entirely different genus of spherical fruit ?
Different beasts. You need this. Do you have any other questions? :D :D :D
Zynaptiq - Audio Software Based On Artificial Intelligence Technology, makers of PITCHMAP: Real-Time Polyphonic Pitch Correction And Mapping.

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DJ Warmonger
KVRAF
2844 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw

Re: ZYNAPTIQ Intensify

Post Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:36 am

zynaptiq wrote:
DJ Warmonger wrote:Volume compensation or it didn't happen. Turning sound louder is not a big achivement on its own ;)

It a multi-band compression with smiley curve, or is there something more to it?
You apparently didn't try the plugin as A) it *has* level compensation for the main function (but not subjective loudness compensation as making things louder is what it's all about), and B) making stuff a lot louder while keeping levels as well as LUFS similar IS a big deal :D
No I did not, I'm referring to demos. If it does what you say it could be very interesting for sure, however the first thing I spotted when launching the video is a cheap manipulation.
http://djwarmonger.wordpress.com/
Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)

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