Carl Cox came to town last Friday, and as someone who has been listening to his tracks since the late 90's, I was pretty excited. The week leading up to the show, I listened to a bunch of his new YouTube sets, recorded in the BBC studios, and I was fairly psyched for the show. I mean, the guy is an amazing producer with an illustrious career. His tracks are full of great grooves, catchy hooks, and well-placed samples....
But what did I get at the show?
The bass on the sound system was cranked to the extreme. No matter where I stood in this cavernous venue (Echostage in Washington, DC), all you could hear was thump, thump, thump, thump... with a rare breakdown where a little something extra would almost poke out for a minute or two. The overpowering bass wiped out everything that makes Cox's sets so enjoyable. Literally, nothing else survived that bass.
Is this the best we can expect? If you pour your heart and soul into a track, agonize over the mix, and then get it professionally mastered... the only thing the audience is going to hear is the incessant thump of the kick drum??
It's enough to put me off making any more Techno. Thoughts?
Is this the best we can hope for?? (Carl Cox show)
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 626 posts since 15 Jun, 2015
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- KVRian
- 1274 posts since 9 Jan, 2013 from morf
Probably the sound technicians thought if out wrong,
Bass is a name shared by many species of fish. The term encompasses both freshwater and marine species, all belonging to the large order Perciformes, or perch-like fishes. The word bass comes from Middle English bars, meaning "perch". Wikipedia
Mass: Largemouth bass: 5.5 kg, Smallmouth bass: 3 kg, Striped bass: 31 kg, European bass: 6.6 kg, White bass: 1.5 kg, Black sea bass: 2.4 kg, White perch: 1.2 kg, Yellow bass: 6 kg, MORE Encyclopedia of Life
they're on an eco drive and read something about the over fishing of the seas
Or more commonly they won't pay to have a soundcheck with the artist, would Carl Cox be happy to know that his set was crap? Or, Coxy was late?
Who can tell, personally I prefer smaller venues, like the ones where you walk in and the air is sucked from your chest but yet everything is crystal
Bass is a name shared by many species of fish. The term encompasses both freshwater and marine species, all belonging to the large order Perciformes, or perch-like fishes. The word bass comes from Middle English bars, meaning "perch". Wikipedia
Mass: Largemouth bass: 5.5 kg, Smallmouth bass: 3 kg, Striped bass: 31 kg, European bass: 6.6 kg, White bass: 1.5 kg, Black sea bass: 2.4 kg, White perch: 1.2 kg, Yellow bass: 6 kg, MORE Encyclopedia of Life
they're on an eco drive and read something about the over fishing of the seas
Or more commonly they won't pay to have a soundcheck with the artist, would Carl Cox be happy to know that his set was crap? Or, Coxy was late?
Who can tell, personally I prefer smaller venues, like the ones where you walk in and the air is sucked from your chest but yet everything is crystal
Last edited by Eauson on Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Man is least himself when he talks in the first person. Give him a mask, and he'll show you his true face
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- KVRAF
- 35410 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
Welcome to 2018. 
I haven't been to a show for a long time, but, you hear that extreme BOOM BOOM BOOM everywhere, cinema, parties, village fairs, wherever. For the people, it isn't music if it hasn't that BOOM BOOM BOOM. And the louder and more widespread the BOOM BOOM BOOM, the more BOOM BOOM BOOM people need it, because, "Yo, deaf, what did you say?".
My car's stereo already annoys me with that totally prominent bass, which is really muddy, even on the lowest setting. You don't get it differently anymore.
I haven't been to a show for a long time, but, you hear that extreme BOOM BOOM BOOM everywhere, cinema, parties, village fairs, wherever. For the people, it isn't music if it hasn't that BOOM BOOM BOOM. And the louder and more widespread the BOOM BOOM BOOM, the more BOOM BOOM BOOM people need it, because, "Yo, deaf, what did you say?".
My car's stereo already annoys me with that totally prominent bass, which is really muddy, even on the lowest setting. You don't get it differently anymore.
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- KVRAF
- 2374 posts since 16 Jan, 2013
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- KVRAF
- 7342 posts since 9 Jan, 2003 from Saint Louis MO
This is the #1 annoyance about my (2014) car. Boomy, ugly bass that completely ruins some music. The EQ settings don't really help. Also using the EQ in Google Play makes it suck a little bit less, but it still sucks.chk071 wrote:My car's stereo already annoys me with that totally prominent bass, which is really muddy, even on the lowest setting. You don't get it differently anymore.
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- KVRAF
- 12352 posts since 7 May, 2006 from Southern California
We went to see Autechre at the Fonda theater (Hollywood) in 2015 and it was the most well balanced live mix I have heard in my life. The bass was very heavy but tight. The mid and high range were incredibly detailed for a live PA. I wish every show would sound like that.
Yeah, the stereos which are built into many new cars seem to produce exaggerated, muddy bass. I listen to a lot of talk radio (mostly NPR/PRI) and in my current car, I had to turn the bass down completely to be able to make it intelligible. I had a new stereo installed earlier this year with smaller drivers in the cabin and a sub that I can bypass in the trunk. The speakers which came with the car were too large and under-powered by the head unit. With smaller speakers and dedicated amps, I can hear everything very clearly, even at low volumes.
I'm not an audiophile by any means but I can't understand what reference material might have actually sounded good on the stock setup. Do they make it sound bad on purpose, to convince people to upgrade the stereo at the dealer? I bet lower cost components, set up correctly, would actually sound better.
Yeah, the stereos which are built into many new cars seem to produce exaggerated, muddy bass. I listen to a lot of talk radio (mostly NPR/PRI) and in my current car, I had to turn the bass down completely to be able to make it intelligible. I had a new stereo installed earlier this year with smaller drivers in the cabin and a sub that I can bypass in the trunk. The speakers which came with the car were too large and under-powered by the head unit. With smaller speakers and dedicated amps, I can hear everything very clearly, even at low volumes.
I'm not an audiophile by any means but I can't understand what reference material might have actually sounded good on the stock setup. Do they make it sound bad on purpose, to convince people to upgrade the stereo at the dealer? I bet lower cost components, set up correctly, would actually sound better.
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- KVRAF
- 35410 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
Same.justin3am wrote: I'm not an audiophile by any means but I can't understand what reference material might have actually sounded good on the stock setup.
Not an audiophile at all, but... it seems like some companies calibrate while sitting on their ears nowadays. I have another example: Before my current Bluetooth speaker (JBL Flip 3), i ordered a Denon one, and, it sounded so muddy, unclear and boring that i sent it back. And it was tested as being pretty good sounding on some websites. Then i got the Flip 3, and it sounded so much better that i didn't even bother to look for another one. Not sure about the judgment these days.-
- KVRian
- 1274 posts since 9 Jan, 2013 from morf
For assistance for ice try
Neutralised, helps to eq your music
https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... rfU7yyktgG
May or may not help
Neutralised, helps to eq your music
https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... rfU7yyktgG
May or may not help
Man is least himself when he talks in the first person. Give him a mask, and he'll show you his true face
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 626 posts since 15 Jun, 2015
This just might be the reason. The opening act was on stage for 3-1/2 hours--from 9 to 12:30. Is that insane? Who knows--maybe he was just biding time until Carl could make it to the venue.Eauson wrote:would Carl Cox be happy to know that his set was crap? Or, Coxy was late?
The last half hour of the first guy's set, there were sound crew crawling all around him, apparently preparing for Carl's appearance, and there was less than a 5 minute break between the two acts. But I'm used to seeing that sort of thing--shortest possible break in the beats--in this kind of show. If you're the main act, you don't want to lose the energy of the crowd.
But as the time neared 1 AM, I started to wonder if he was ever coming on.
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- Banned
- 410 posts since 21 Nov, 2005
Sometimes, there's also kbbb, kbbb, kbbb, kbbb........chk071 wrote:you hear that extreme BOOM BOOM BOOM everywhere, cinema, parties, village fairs, wherever. For the people, it isn't music if it hasn't that BOOM BOOM BOOM. And the louder and more widespread the BOOM BOOM BOOM, the more BOOM BOOM BOOM people need it, because...
Oh, and
ts-ts-ts-ts-ts -ts-ts!!!
pew-ew-EW
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- KVRAF
- 3477 posts since 27 Dec, 2002 from North East England
I had something this when I saw Blanck Mass at Rich Mix. The worst sound I've ever heard outside of a provincial nightclub. Near-impossible to make certain tracks out, just an ugly wash of reverby lower-mids eating everything else.
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- KVRAF
- 5703 posts since 8 Dec, 2004 from The Twin Cities
In many cases it is the acoustics of the venue itself. It amazes me how places that charge money to customers to see music acts neglect even minimal sound treatment.
I have seen many different kinds of Musical acts, some of them major label artists, that sounded just atrocious due to this neglect.
People often blame the engineers, but if the acoustics are bad, there isn't much they can do.
I have seen many different kinds of Musical acts, some of them major label artists, that sounded just atrocious due to this neglect.
People often blame the engineers, but if the acoustics are bad, there isn't much they can do.
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- addled muppet weed
- 105800 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
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thecontrolcentre thecontrolcentre https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=76240 - KVRAF
- 35163 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny
I once opened for Venetian Snares at a bar in Newcastle (The Egypt Cottage). He turned up just as I was finishing my set, went straight on, and blew the horns in the PA with his first tune. It didn't seem to bother the (pogoing) audience.
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- KVRAF
- 6113 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America
I usually hate live sound and avoid it intentionally. It is why I have tinnitus from my mid teen years.
I once saw Tori Amos... in a frelling cement gymnasium. Awful.
I refuse to go to live music events anymore.
The best show I ever saw was in a theatre. As in, for stage plays. Seats, proper sound treatment, small acts, sensible volume. It was Magnetic Fields and a guy who used a loop machine and a violin, guitar, and something else(?) (and his voice), to be a "band".
Great audience. They actually sat there quietly and listened. Best live experience I ever had.
Edit: Aside from that one great experience, every live event I've been to had shitty sound and loud audiences. Movie theatre sound systems suck too, usually because they're cranked up too loud and damaged as a result, and the levels are shit. Center channel gets drowned out and dialog is lost to everything else. It makes me not want to go to the movies anymore.
And the car I drive (2015 Mazda 3) has hyped bass, too. Bose speakers (which are well known to hype bass). No settings will fix it.
We live in a world where expertise died; almost nobody notices and almost nobody cares.
I once saw Tori Amos... in a frelling cement gymnasium. Awful.
I refuse to go to live music events anymore.
The best show I ever saw was in a theatre. As in, for stage plays. Seats, proper sound treatment, small acts, sensible volume. It was Magnetic Fields and a guy who used a loop machine and a violin, guitar, and something else(?) (and his voice), to be a "band".
Great audience. They actually sat there quietly and listened. Best live experience I ever had.
Edit: Aside from that one great experience, every live event I've been to had shitty sound and loud audiences. Movie theatre sound systems suck too, usually because they're cranked up too loud and damaged as a result, and the levels are shit. Center channel gets drowned out and dialog is lost to everything else. It makes me not want to go to the movies anymore.
And the car I drive (2015 Mazda 3) has hyped bass, too. Bose speakers (which are well known to hype bass). No settings will fix it.
We live in a world where expertise died; almost nobody notices and almost nobody cares.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud
my music @ SoundCloud
