KVR Audio

martinjuenke · Post by **martinjuenke** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:54 pm

I‘m for many, many years satisfied with Logic Pro.

But pretty often I read that Ableton Live shall be triggering creativity through having a unique approach.

Is that true? Is it worth spending a couple of hundred bucks for that? Or would that be simply a waste of money and (more important) a source of distraction from making music?

tooneba · Post by **tooneba** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:18 pm

Does his opinion help? He has used both programs.
(45:45) https://youtu.be/XiQr-lO2obs?t=2745

spunkmuffin · Post by **spunkmuffin** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:45 pm

I just watched this video and the chap uses both Live and Logic in every project. Live for creation and mixing and then Logic for a fresh perspective and mastering. He talks about it ~1:10:15. Seems to work for him...I found it interesting.

The Track: Wehbba breaks down the creation of Fake

Tj Shredder · Post by **Tj Shredder** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:49 pm

Live did not trigger my creativity, coming from Max/MSP, Max4Live didn't add anything, rather cut off things...
But Bitwig did big time, it has a comparable design, certainly different than Logic, but is a modular beast in its own right, check it out as well!

Zexila · Post by **Zexila** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:10 pm

I'm long Logic user too and can confirm that Bitwig brings something good on the table, for me it's the scenes&clip launching workflow, also browser in Bitwig is quite hands on, also ability to just drop sample in the channel arrangement area and have it instantly loaded in sampler, automation is breeze too and there's some other handy stuff, all in all, find working in Bitwig quite liberating and fun.

I don't like Live, but it got similar approach as Bitwig and you can rewire it with Logic, but for that you don't need to spend big buck on it, even some Lite version can serve you good, start of project in it and than just continue in Logic, finish arrangement and mix.

I find Logic better for arrangement and mixing work, not just recording scenes into arrangement, but actual arrangement editing, so yeah, give demo's a whirl.

Also have a feeling Logic will soon get some workflow enchantments like clip launching, also in sampler area, so yeah, who knows.

Check this out:
https://ask.audio/articles/hacking-logi ... ssion-view

Winstontaneous · Post by **Winstontaneous** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:09 pm

Live & Logic, and Reason are my main DAWs (with occasional Reaper/Audiomulch forays, and I've used Bitwig & Tracktion in the past, too).

Live & Logic complement each other well. Live has Session view and great control-surface handling; Logic has notation, comping, FlexPitch/Tempo, native script-ability and the great algorithmic Drummer. To me Live is way more "logical" while Logic feels like a kludged-together mess to which more stuff keeps getting tacked on over the years. Logic has literally the worst window handling of any computer program I've ever used on any OS, and there are crazy-making aspects to its automation and mute/solo behavior that aren't documented but acknowledged by the power-user community. Logic's last 3 revisions have rendered it the least stable plugin host I've used by a significant margin which is ironic because Apple invented both the AU format and the (marketing) concept of computers "just working".

Zexila · Post by **Zexila** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:14 pm

Winstontaneous wrote:Logic has literally the worst window handling of any computer program I've ever used on any OS

Worst than Cubase?

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:42 pm

I use Bitwig and Logic together. I used to use Live, but I purchased a Linnstrument and Live has no MPE capability at all. So I switched from Live to Bitwig. Initially it was the MPE support that made me switch, but now I like Bitwig so much more than Live. Bitwig is fantastic for sound design and creative exploration and compliments Logic very well.

Winstontaneous · Post by **Winstontaneous** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:45 pm

Zexila wrote:
Winstontaneous wrote:Logic has literally the worst window handling of any computer program I've ever used on any OS
Worst than Cubase?

Never used Cubase. Dongle, no demo for the OS I ran at the time (Windows XP), and their forum had the largest number of disgruntled users of any company forum I've seen. No thanks!

Truly ironic - the companies that created the VST and AU plugin standards, which allow the possibility of zillions of little windows that need to be managed, having the DAWs with the worst window management.

Zexila · Post by **Zexila** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:01 pm

Logic 8/9/X have good window management, I really don't know what are you on about, plenty of folks use them in studio with multiple screens setups.

pottering · Post by **pottering** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:11 pm

Tj Shredder wrote:Live did not trigger my creativity, coming from Max/MSP, Max4Live didn't add anything, rather cut off things...

M4L costs a lot less than full Max (less than half), kinda obvious why it has less features.

With both M4L and Max you can load .amxd as objects inside Max (can't do that with just M4L).

https://docs.cycling74.com/max7/tutoria ... nchapter03

There are thousands of M4L devices that can work as objects in Max:

http://maxforlive.com/

(plus the stuff from Ableton themselves, like the new Creative Extensions)

So it is not true that M4L adds nothing to a MaxMSP-only workflow.

(It also adds bigger community support, as there are more users with M4L in Live. Even if you don't own Live)

xbitz · Post by **xbitz** » Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:24 pm

unique instrumental/fx device chains can be created much more easily...in Live/Bitwig
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEioSscCr4w

martinjuenke · Post by **martinjuenke** » Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:54 pm

Thanks so far for all your comments!

My new idea is to buy Maschine Mikro incl. that Maschine software to jump into another workflow just for triggering creativity.
(And by the way I would have a better usage for all these Maschine expansions which will come with Komplete Ultimate 12.)
Crazy idea?

Zexila · Post by **Zexila** » Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:13 pm

martinjuenke wrote:Thanks so far for all your comments!
My new idea is to buy Maschine Mikro incl. that Maschine software to jump into another workflow just for triggering creativity.
(And by the way I would have a better usage for all these Maschine expansions which will come with Komplete Ultimate 12.)
Crazy idea?

Not at all, go for it.

Benefits when using Logic ProX and Ableton Live in parallel?