8DIO - My experience

Sampler and Sampling discussion (techniques, tips and tricks, etc.)
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topaz
KVRAF
4183 posts since 15 Jul, 2001 from Holmfirth, West Yorkshire, U.K

Post Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:13 pm

No problem with that but fix the bugs at least.

Doesn’t exactly make me want to buy more.
mgw38 wrote: I paid 119$ for it 18 months ago. I think they more or less retired that product line after they released Anthology last year.

GearNostalgia
KVRist
244 posts since 28 Dec, 2017

Re: 8DIO - stay away from them!

Post Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:39 pm

topaz wrote:No problem with that but fix the bugs at least.

Doesn’t exactly make me want to buy more.
mgw38 wrote: I paid 119$ for it 18 months ago. I think they more or less retired that product line after they released Anthology last year.
Well don't expect it to get fixed. BTW, I got 8Dios attention in VI-forum. Sadly they popped in to make some accusations and false statement that they would have sorted it out if I hade contacted them in the proper channels. Which was an absurd thing since I contacted them as they requested and even asked for them twice too look at my case and reconsider it. They also said that they would not respond more. I managed to squeeze in a reply just before the thread got locked by the admin. Feels like VI-control is biased in favour of devs. I saw other discussions that had been tucked away before.

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dandezebra
KVRian
659 posts since 21 Dec, 2013 from USA

Re: 8DIO - stay away from them!

Post Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:57 pm

You also managed to ignore all help from 8Dio in the thread - not squeezing in any replies at all while responding to others. Why didn't you respond to 8Dio again? I asked there and you ignored me... I wonder why Admin locked it.

Your horseballs about the 8Dio agent don't include their first two posts in that thread by the way. Interesting reading!

Please stay polite and reply to folks so the thread doesn't get locked like this:

https://vi-control.net/community/thread ... osa.72647/

PS - Hope I can post this here. If not, let me know or delete.
Last edited by dandezebra on Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jancivil
KVRAF
15300 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: 8DIO - stay away from them!

Post Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:00 pm

dandezebra wrote: Please someone lock this thread before it turns into this:
A long thread with a lot of different opinions, some of which are not 8DIO advocacy?

Are you representing 8DIO with this? What is your interest?

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jancivil
KVRAF
15300 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: 8DIO - stay away from them!

Post Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:12 pm

I didn't care much for GN's modus operandi in the video, quickly hitting each note chromatically upwards but I was hardly surprised to see: "Some will need to be hidden more than others, and especially this one. It sounds nothing like a choir alone, which is why you can’t use it for anything else than a distant scream in an epic track." subsequently.

In all fairness, there are a couple of things I've used by them which I loved using. Glass Marimba at the time was I think innovative. I liked the original Frame Drum and was happy to see a free upgrade for it, and quite some time later iirc. I do not find them a really top or stellar developer because of shoddy and hurried less-than-best practices. Almost a little schizoid.

As to 8DIO at VI Control there was one thread regarding where big ol' Troels continued on with work on a library based in someone's work where that someone pulled out and this stopped nothing including the release of the product, which may have been illegal (my reading of it is, it was a violation of a couple of things in all probability) where apparently TF pressured them to delete the portions which would hurt his rep. There's a thread about that here and there are other threads about it on the 'net if not scrubbed somehow.

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dandezebra
KVRian
659 posts since 21 Dec, 2013 from USA

Re: 8DIO - stay away from them!

Post Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:30 pm

jancivil wrote:
dandezebra wrote: Please someone lock this thread before it turns into this:
A long thread with a lot of different opinions, some of which are not 8DIO advocacy?

Are you representing 8DIO with this? What is your interest?
I edited my previous post to reflect what I was actually thinking. I rushed the post.

jancivil, I hope you read the other forum's thread in its entirety as you would clearly see that I asked questions that were ignored. Thus, my interest. I have purchased many libraries that I use and more that I don't...for a number of reasons.

I have read many a post from you here and have learned a lot, so thanks.

Others posting seemingly had similar experience including the OP refusing to acknowledge that there were differing opinions as well as two interesting posts from 8Dio themselves before the OP seemingly went too far (my opinion).

I have no affiliation with 8Dio or anyone else but was confounded as to GN's replies. A few other great library creators posted in that forum so it was a shame that the OP's replies had it closed. I guess that is what I didn't want to see again.

I hope this doesn't end up in you or anyone else trying to find a fight here as that is not my intent.

Cheers

User avatar
jancivil
KVRAF
15300 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: 8DIO - stay away from them!

Post Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:16 pm

Well, I don't post there. I can't tell from 9 pages of that thread what your handle is there from what I see here.
I did want to know if you were 8DIO. I may not want to read any more, it's becoming circular.
AHA: page 11 "OP, you actually never responded to tawnia or sent another E-mail? Really!?!"
Yeah, I'm not taking sides in that, that's for sure! I just kind of don't like 8DIO, and I would not buy that library for more reasons from there than I had here, which was almost nothing at all. Moot point because I'd prolly buy Soundiron ;).

I don't agree with a number of specifics there but whatever. I find the apologetics for 8DIO from some preposterous but in general the developer vs end user tension is there throughout. And that is a bad sign.

I have one take on the difference between the liberalism of Soundiron vs a couple other similarly-sized developers, and that is down to community and generosity which may not be available to some, and it is also a matter of generosity of spirit which is not my impression of 8DIO culture at all. The one representative posting there "Warmly" notwithstanding. I don't think Mike is super-rich while Troels is struggling terribly, if you get my drift.
The "Warmly" person went off in her second post, lol. It's same as it ever was, money f**ks shit up but that's how the world turns.

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dandezebra
KVRian
659 posts since 21 Dec, 2013 from USA

Re: 8DIO - stay away from them!

Post Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:28 pm

I will say that I have rarely (if at all) read anything negative about SoundIron. I actually just posted that at VI as well in another thread.
Company/ culture is fantastic, support is quick and polite (go Nathan!), and the products are fun as Hell! I do get your drift. Ha!

I have no experience with 8Dio in terms of support / problems and only own a few smaller libraries of theirs.

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jancivil
KVRAF
15300 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: 8DIO - stay away from them!

Post Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:35 pm

But you're right, that took a turn at pg 11 towards a lock thread kind of deal there, agreed.

While I'm kvetching a bit, I've moved on, I have plenty of drums incl frame drums and nowhere to store more currently so I've made my choice, life is too short for a long vendetta. ;)

GearNostalgia
KVRist
244 posts since 28 Dec, 2017

Re: 8DIO - stay away from them!

Post Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:45 pm

dandezebra wrote:You also managed to ignore all help from 8Dio in the thread - not squeezing in any replies at all while responding to others. Why didn't you respond to 8Dio again? I asked there and you ignored me... I wonder why Admin locked it.

Your horseballs about the 8Dio agent don't include their first two posts in that thread by the way. Interesting reading!

Please stay polite and reply to folks so the thread doesn't get locked like this:

https://vi-control.net/community/thread ... osa.72647/

PS - Hope I can post this here. If not, let me know or delete.
No problem. As you know the thread was locked down before I could respond to you all. I was watching the soccer world cup and was only trying to respond in the intermissions and there were many questions to answer. I did not skip any by purpose. I went back to reading the thread over again and just found almost an entire pages of post that I did not see while trying to catch up om my iPhone. In that was a long post from an 8Dio resentative that I had not seen at all. My bad and I agree that it seems very weird that I did not respond to it. But if you look at the times you see that there were quite a few post made in a short timespan. I picked up answering again further down and got harrassed for not mailing them and tried to reply that I this is who it all started. They did not want to discuss it with me over mail och chat.

You are correct. I did not reply to all posts. There was a flood of post when I was watching the soccer world cup. I tried to answer on my iPhone. My bad. Now when I have reread the entire thread I see that I missed to answer yours and some other posts, but also a post from 8Dio that they wanted to open up the discussion in mail with me again. The thread is locked now, so it stands as it is. Now that I have found the missing link in the convesation I understand why everybody wondered why I did not mail them. I did not see that post. But still facts remain. I made so many attempts to mail them I don't see why they did not mail me back now if that is where they want to discuss it.

After all the harsh talk I have tried to be clear and polite all the time. I think they are the ones who like to adress their customers and drug addicts conducting orchestra and beeing superhumanly picky choir users. After getting several loud and clear replies that they did not even consider willing to discuss it with me I did go public. So it I was not expecting them to enter the discussion in any way. And if so my guess would be that the would pick up any of all my closed cases in their own channels(as they instructed in the final post) to make a settlement.

I really don't think I should have to open a new case with their support after like five attempts. And I really doubt they can have more that one customer with the exact same claim about the exact same product. if that indeed is the case I don't mind if somebody that did not dare to take debates gets his refund due to a misup. After all it is silly that is should need to go this far to get any kind of attention. If they want to offer me any kind of solution they know where to find me. The ball is in their court now. I doubt they want to play, but you can be assured that I will let you know if they do or if they don't.
Last edited by GearNostalgia on Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

GearNostalgia
KVRist
244 posts since 28 Dec, 2017

Re: 8DIO - stay away from them!

Post Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:10 pm

jancivil wrote:Well, I don't post there. I can't tell from 9 pages of that thread what your handle is there from what I see here.
I did want to know if you were 8DIO. I may not want to read any more, it's becoming circular.
AHA: page 11 "OP, you actually never responded to tawnia or sent another E-mail? Really!?!"
Yeah, I'm not taking sides in that, that's for sure! I just kind of don't like 8DIO, and I would not buy that library for more reasons from there than I had here, which was almost nothing at all. Moot point because I'd prolly buy Soundiron ;).

I don't agree with a number of specifics there but whatever. I find the apologetics for 8DIO from some preposterous but in general the developer vs end user tension is there throughout. And that is a bad sign.

I have one take on the difference between the liberalism of Soundiron vs a couple other similarly-sized developers, and that is down to community and generosity which may not be available to some, and it is also a matter of generosity of spirit which is not my impression of 8DIO culture at all. The one representative posting there "Warmly" notwithstanding. I don't think Mike is super-rich while Troels is struggling terribly, if you get my drift.
The "Warmly" person went off in her second post, lol. It's same as it ever was, money f**ks shit up but that's how the world turns.
Hello. Yes. Nice to hear about your good experiences with SoundIron, wish I had started with them instead. I don't think you need to read all the post in that thread cause many pointed out from the start that their EULA is not unusual and that I should not expect to get any kind of refund and instead try and fix the library myself or look for some part of it that I could use in any other project. So it was a long discussion about it. A good discussion about why many have that EULA and such. Educational and I wish I had it 3 weeks ago.

I did not go into this with hopes or intentions to sway them to give me any of my money back (although that would be a nice turn of events) I had to accept my money when they they replied to my last plea to reconsider their final decision about refusing to give me any kind of storecredit/trade in/resale or refund with a clear no. My purpose with these two threads was to inform the newcomers and first time buyers to know how they treated me so that they don't repeat my mistake.

Read their EULA

Read their EULA

and expect them to enforce it to the letter

User avatar
jancivil
KVRAF
15300 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: 8DIO - stay away from them!

Post Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:42 am

Well, Tawnia only needs you to ascertain who she's 99% sure is you to get a full refund, according to around that point in the thread.

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bharris22
KVRian
1381 posts since 3 Mar, 2010

Re: 8DIO - stay away from them!

Post Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:45 pm

I also had a less than satisfactory experience with 8dio/Troels in the Tonehammer days - not based on customer service, but a strange experience with the libraries. I purchased the Forgotten Voices collection, and after downloading and trying it out, realized that the various vocal phrases were not organized by key. When I asked Troels about this in an e-mail exchange, he said that there were no notes from the sessions that would indicate the key of each phrase, and no way to determine which notes were in each phrase. I was advised that they were trying to capture the essence and emotion of the vocals, not specific notes, and I should use them for inspiration/improvisation, "using them freely, since they were created in a free spirit." I do like the phrases, but without any sort of guidepost regarding the key of each phrase, I have found the libraries extremely difficult to work with and they have basically sat on my hard drive for the past five years. I assumed that there would be some correlation to the key that is pressed and the key of a particular phrase, but there is not. I wish I would have known that before purchasing. YMMV, of course.

GearNostalgia
KVRist
244 posts since 28 Dec, 2017

Re: 8DIO - stay away from them!

Post Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:55 am

bharris22 wrote:I also had a less than satisfactory experience with 8dio/Troels in the Tonehammer days - not based on customer service, but a strange experience with the libraries. I purchased the Forgotten Voices collection, and after downloading and trying it out, realized that the various vocal phrases were not organized by key. When I asked Troels about this in an e-mail exchange, he said that there were no notes from the sessions that would indicate the key of each phrase, and no way to determine which notes were in each phrase. I was advised that they were trying to capture the essence and emotion of the vocals, not specific notes, and I should use them for inspiration/improvisation, "using them freely, since they were created in a free spirit." I do like the phrases, but without any sort of guidepost regarding the key of each phrase, I have found the libraries extremely difficult to work with and they have basically sat on my hard drive for the past five years. I assumed that there would be some correlation to the key that is pressed and the key of a particular phrase, but there is not. I wish I would have known that before purchasing. YMMV, of course.
Yes, there are in deed things that one would like to know in advance and some things you have to learn at great expense and pain. I have recently learned a lot from buying from 8Dio and also from trying to warn others from them. Said warning also applies in a broader sense to all developers that use the onesides EULA that leaves us as customers without any hope for corrections/resale/refunds. I don't need to rehash that again cause it is in the first post here, but I have learned some more now.

What I recently learned is that the Admin of VI-forums does not give a rats ass about what others thinks is fair if it wastes any of his time and that you can not reply to his questions with quotes and facts that includes an explanations about why things turned out the way they did. That will get you banned from his forum. Since he is also discussing actions with developers(sponsors) of the forum behind the scenes, but does not answer private questions from plain forum members it goes well with his statement that he does not give a rats ass about what is fair. That's cool with me, his hometurf, his rules.

Well, I spoke up against 8Dios treatment over there and some had similiar experiences, hopefully that made a few more not fall into that honey trap in the future. I was certain that my money was lost long before I made post here and on VI-forum. I had nothing to loose. I would be utterly surpriced if 8Dio change their mind and refund me to improove their reputation. but if that happen (in spite of the fact that they are only 99% sure of which customer to refund) I will sure post it here - I am all about beeing fair - even those that have mistreated me will get due credit if they change their ways.

Great thumbs up for KVR that seems to have a balance between users and brands. The brands here engage and coexist nicely with their customers.

User avatar
topaz
KVRAF
4183 posts since 15 Jul, 2001 from Holmfirth, West Yorkshire, U.K

Re: 8DIO - stay away from them!

Post Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:23 pm

@GearNostalgia fwi I’m on your side here.

You will always get trolls that will always side with company’s over users.

The same trolls are the first to moan when they have a problem.

Kvr has a mute button in the form of foe, try it out once you spot one. :-)

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