Fathom Synth Development Thread

[FathomSynth]

Please see my post on the previous page.

Also, here's the deal with the envelope page in general. I was waiting to add toggles until there were 4 useful toggles needed so the number of toggles per column is the same and the page graphics are not ruined. And I think we are up to 4 now.

Here they are, so please let me know if you agree with this list, or if there are other potential envelope settings which you think are more important.

1. “One Shot” Envelope. Envelope is played literally regardless of note length. If applied to the volume the envelope would play to completion without a variable sustain phase regardless of the note duration. Another option would be a “Hold Volume” toggle which would simply allow the user to automatically keep the master volume active until other envelope run to completion.

2. Smooth Envelope. This setting already exists globally but it needs to be moved from the settings page to the Envelope page so it can be changed per modulator. It controls the envelope when a note is hit during the release phase on the same key such that the envelope will start where it was interrupted. This is useful for smooth pads when you only want the attack phase to start on non-adjacent notes if the decay phase has completed, but not if the decay phase is being interrupted. Conversely for a sharp bass sound you want the envelope to start with the attack even when interrupted on the same key.

3. Ramp from Zero. This is a critical toggle needed when the segment width is changed in conjunction with the Ramp Up and Ramp Down dials. Sometimes you want the Ramp to go from the level of the neighboring segments rather than always from zero.

4. Synce Edge to Oscillator. Currently there is only one parameter that can do this. But the clearness of modulating the partials dial was so important that long ago I designed the audio processor so that if a sharp edge is hit in the envelope it is synchronized to the edge of the oscillator cycles. The reason for this is that it eliminates clicks at the envelope edges without smoothing the envelope with the smooth samples dial. Effectively this produces an extremely sharp envelope but with no clicks. Currently this is a global setting but it could be moved to the envelope as a toggle so it could be set differently per envelope.

5. Loop start, This is not a new toggle but it should enable the user to use the Glide On line as a loop start point controlling where the song loop starts so an attack phase can be created which is not included in the loop.

6. Modulation slat toggle “Reverse Vertical” or upside down which reverses the vertical polarity of the envelope. This is needed for bipolar dials if the dial value is below zero and you want to quickly control if the envelope takes the value toward or away from zero.

Let me know if you all agree with these priorities for the envelope page.

[Delta Sign]

4. Synce Edge to Oscillator. Currently there is only one parameter that can do this. But the clearness of modulating the partials dial was so important that long ago I designed the audio processor so that if a sharp edge is hit in the envelope it is synchronized to the edge of the oscillator cycles. The reason for this is that it eliminates clicks at the envelope edges without smoothing the envelope with the smooth samples dial. Effectively this produces an extremely sharp envelope but with no clicks. Currently this is a global setting but it could be moved to the envelope as a toggle so it could be set differently per envelope.

I never heard of this synth before but I just wanted to say that is a brilliant idea.

[FathomSynth]

Delta, Hi, it's great to have you here, welcome aboard!

[provoc]

Please see my post on the previous page.

Also, here's the deal with the envelope page in general. I was waiting to add toggles until there were 4 useful toggles needed so the number of toggles per column is the same and the page graphics are not ruined. And I think we are up to 4 now.

Here they are, so please let me know if you agree with this list, or if there are other potential envelope settings which you think are more important.

1. “One Shot” Envelope. Envelope is played literally regardless of note length. If applied to the volume the envelope would play to completion without a variable sustain phase regardless of the note duration. Another option would be a “Hold Volume” toggle which would simply allow the user to automatically keep the master volume active until other envelope run to completion.

2. Smooth Envelope. This setting already exists globally but it needs to be moved from the settings page to the Envelope page so it can be changed per modulator. It controls the envelope when a note is hit during the release phase on the same key such that the envelope will start where it was interrupted. This is useful for smooth pads when you only want the attack phase to start on non-adjacent notes if the decay phase has completed, but not if the decay phase is being interrupted. Conversely for a sharp bass sound you want the envelope to start with the attack even when interrupted on the same key.

3. Ramp from Zero. This is a critical toggle needed when the segment width is changed in conjunction with the Ramp Up and Ramp Down dials. Sometimes you want the Ramp to go from the level of the neighboring segments rather than always from zero.

4. Synce Edge to Oscillator. Currently there is only one parameter that can do this. But the clearness of modulating the partials dial was so important that long ago I designed the audio processor so that if a sharp edge is hit in the envelope it is synchronized to the edge of the oscillator cycles. The reason for this is that it eliminates clicks at the envelope edges without smoothing the envelope with the smooth samples dial. Effectively this produces an extremely sharp envelope but with no clicks. Currently this is a global setting but it could be moved to the envelope as a toggle so it could be set differently per envelope.

5. Loop start, This is not a new toggle but it should enable the user to use the Glide On line as a loop start point controlling where the song loop starts so an attack phase can be created which is not included in the loop.

6. Modulation slat toggle “Reverse Vertical” or upside down which reverses the vertical polarity of the envelope. This is needed for bipolar dials if the dial value is below zero and you want to quickly control if the envelope takes the value toward or away from zero.

Let me know if you all agree with these priorities for the envelope page.

These all sound like good options especially 5 which I have been looking forward to!

Explicit one shots would be very useful too but to me the thing I find a bit problematic/confusing is that the envelope behaves differently on volume than it does on other params as you describe in your previous post. Another solution could be to have the volume behave exactly the same as other params since there seems to be enough configurability to not need special behaviour? The switch could then be a “legacy” switch to maintain the original behaviour for backwards compatibility? Anyway, just an idea .. please keep up the good work

[FathomSynth]

I see your point, but in fact the volume envelope is exactly the same as the envelope on any other parameter (same exact code), the reason it seems different is because it modulates the volume which obviously impacts everything else.

I could have made it so having a note off on other envelopes automatically extends the master volume, but I personally would find that confusing, and it also violates the philosophy of Fathom which is to give the user all the tools they need but generally not to do things secretly without them programming it.

I think it makes the most sense to simply add a toggle to the envelope page which tells it to take the envelope literally without automatically extending the sustain phase, that way the problem is solved, and like you say all envelopes work the same.

[jmg8]

I work with Melda. The software is very in-depth and mostly offers every option possible. So it would often be a good resource to find inspiration for settings/options etc. Here is a section from the manual for MPowerSynth. It shows some options for note on/off modes.

Polyphonic mode is the default mode, which makes the synth create as many voices simultaneously as necessary.
Polyphonic (single voice per note) is similar to polyphonic, but ensures that only one voice will be created for each MIDI key. If sustain is pressed (or other conditions cause multiple notes of the same key), the previous one will be terminated in the same way as when you release the key. This prevents voices stacking up when holding sustain pedal, however it may cause problems when harmonies are used, as pressing one key simulates pressing multiple keys.
Monophonic mode makes the synth play only one note at a time. When you hold one note and press another one the existing previous voice pitch is changed according to the new note, potentially with gliding. No attack stage or any kind of restart happens, so it sounds simply like the pitch has been changed.
Monophonic (toggle) mode is similar to the monophonic mode, however when you then release the new note while holding the previous one, the pitch of the voice is changed back to the note you are holding.
Monophonic (attack), Monophonic (toggle + attack) and Monophonic (toggle + attack even off) modes are similar to the 2 previous monophonic modes, however the voice is always switched back to the attack stage. This brings some focus to the new note, but no new voices are actually created. This mode smartly jumps in the ADSR envelope to the attack stage avoiding any abrupt changes in level and changes the pitch. The even off flag means that the attack is restarted even on note-offs. That means if you hold a long note, press a short one, then the attack is restarted not only when you press the short one, but also when you release it.
Monophonic (brutal) mode is similar to the previous modes, but the switch to the attack stage doesn't do any smoothing, so you may expect sharp clicking when the notes are restarting. This may be useful for short percussive sounds.
Monophonic (restart) mode and Monophonic (toggle + restart) mode are similar to the other monophonic modes, however instead of changing the pitch of the existing voices, the current voices are stopped in the same way as when you release them and new voices are created for the notes being pressed. This way the ADSR envelope is followed and you can get interesting overlaps of the release stages.
Trigger mode makes the synth completely ignore note release events and makes the notes be triggered on and off immediately providing a sort of staccato behaviour. This is especially useful for percussive sounds and in conjunction with another synth to form special attack sounds.

All your suggestions sound good to me.

I will get back to you regarding the repro steps for the envelope problem I had.

[jmg8]

Here is another option:

Immediate release button activates the immediate release mode in which case the note-off causes an immediate switch to the release stage. If this is disabled, the release stage does not occur until the whole attack/decay stage finishes.

[jmg8]

REPRO STEPS:

1. Insert Analog Saw (default state)
2. Insert Reverb Pro (default state)
3. Insert LP First Order Filter.
4. Route them together in this order (see picture)
5. Add an envelope to modulate filter cutoff.
6. Set modulation range to maximum.
7. Set envelope settings (see picture)
8. Hold C3 note and simultaneously press G3.

Now for me, the envelope is not being triggered when pressing G3.

[provoc]

I see your point, but in fact the volume envelope is exactly the same as the envelope on any other parameter (same exact code), the reason it seems different is because it modulates the volume which obviously impacts everything else.

I could have made it so having a note off on other envelopes automatically extends the master volume, but I personally would find that confusing, and it also violates the philosophy of Fathom which is to give the user all the tools they need but generally not to do things secretly without them programming it.

I think it makes the most sense to simply add a toggle to the envelope page which tells it to take the envelope literally without automatically extending the sustain phase, that way the problem is solved, and like you say all envelopes work the same.

Thanks for the explanation. I had a bit more of a think about this after your reply and since as you say an envelope on volume is the same code as any other envelope which is effectively one shot if "Trigger set to Note and without the Note Off toggle line set", I am still a bit unclear what the actual underlying difference on volume is?

I am currently thinking it has something to do with the fact that there is a note/trigger gate on master volume since even with no envelope on volume the oscillators are still gated on/off by note.

Is it therefore the case that if a volume envelope has a note off stage this overrides the gate and allows the release to decay?

Additionally is it the case that without the note off the volume is gated even though in fact the volume envelope is actually still running but not audible because it is gated?

If the above is true then would it be that the toggle you plan to add would override the gate so that the envelope is now audible?

Anyway, I might be off the track here and am mindful that these questions don’t really effect the observable behaviour, and I am also confident that your proposed solution will do the trick, but as an engineering type I am always more conformable when I better understand how things work

[FathomSynth]

jmg8, Thanks for steps, I will reproduce it today.

Provoc, Sorry, sometimes I make things complicated when I explain them. It's actually much simpler than that.

The envelopes always do exactly what you tell them following 4 simple rules:

1. If you lift your finger off a key it stops playing unless the volume ADSR has a release phase.
2. If trigger is set to note and there is a note off line then the sustain phase is held if you hold a key.
3. If trigger is set to song the envelope loops if you hold a key.
4. If there is no volume other envelopes are ignored.

In regard to number 4, if a tree falls in the forest and no one is listening does it make a sound? Well for Fathom if no one is listening it simply doesn't cut down any trees.

There is no special gate function. The oscillator simply does exactly what the volume envelope tells it. If there is a decay after the note off line in the volume envelope plays it, if not it stops when you lift your finger off the key.

The complication arises when you want both the volume ADSR and filter ADSR to do the same thing and play literally, you don't use any note off line because you don't want either envelope to extend the sustain phase. But, ouch, everything stops because you lifted your finger off the key and both envelopes stopped playing.

So the solution is to have a toggle where you tell the volume envelope to play the full envelope even if the key is lifted.

[enCiphered]

Hi,

is there a way to register at your webshop to get notified by mail when new updates are available? I find it really hard to track this thread and read every post just to see if there is a new version of Fathom.

Thanks

[BlackWinny]

Hi,

is there a way to register at your webshop to get notified by mail when new updates are available? I find it really hard to track this thread and read every post just to see if there is a new version of Fathom.

Thanks

Have you ticked the tag "I own this" at the rightmost column of the product page Fathom Synth ?

If yes, then you are systematically informed by email each time that there is a new update.

KVR works that way. For all the products.

[enCiphered]

Hi,

is there a way to register at your webshop to get notified by mail when new updates are available? I find it really hard to track this thread and read every post just to see if there is a new version of Fathom.

Thanks

Have you ticked the tag "I own this" at the rightmost column of the product page Fathom Synth ?

If yes, then you are systematically informed by email each time that there is a new update.

KVR works that way. For all the products.

Interesting. I didn´t know that, thanks a lot!

[FathomSynth]

BW, That's a great idea, I did not realize KVR had that automated, it's awesome.

enCiphered, I do keep an email list of people who want to be informed, so you are on it now.

The big release of 2.12 is Friday for the $11.00 "Fathom Friday" Sale.

"But this one goes to eleven"!

[provoc]

The envelopes always do exactly what you tell them following 4 simple rules:

1. If you lift your finger off a key it stops playing unless the volume ADSR has a release phase.
2. If trigger is set to note and there is a note off line then the sustain phase is held if you hold a key.
3. If trigger is set to song the envelope loops if you hold a key.
4. If there is no volume other envelopes are ignored.

In regard to number 4, if a tree falls in the forest and no one is listening does it make a sound? Well for Fathom if no one is listening it simply doesn't cut down any trees.

Thanks, got it now