Tone2 Gladiator 3 (public beta)

[chk071]

Dev wars in full effect.

[Spitfire31]

Please, sort this out in private away from our eyes.
It feels like watching your parents go through a public divorce to me anyway.

What the man said! This public exchange is getting more and more embarrassing.

/Joachim

[chk071]

Yeah. Especially as both sides obviously are keen on keeping their faces.

[Amram]

Please, sort this out in private away from our eyes.
It feels like watching your parents go through a public divorce to me anyway.

What the man said! This public exchange is getting more and more embarrassing.

/Joachim

Why embarrassing?
Intresting.

[JoeCat]

Interesting response to say the least. So a sawtooth wav, even though it's still generated by Icarus, is not copyrighted content.

So at what point DOES it become copyrighted content? When I apply a filter to it? An LFO? What about an envelope? What about if I apply one of the built in FX or more than one?

When we start qualifying what is and what ISN'T copyrighted content from the SAME synth, that's when we end up walking down a VERY slippery slope.

And just for the record, I have absolutely no desire to start sampling sounds from Icarus, mangling them to death and sell them in some sample related product. I'm not into that stuff. I just design patches for synths using whatever the synths have to offer in the way of sound design. And since Icarus wavetables aren't compatible with any other synth that I own, what's the point anyway? I use Serum and/or some 3rd party wavetable creator to make my wavetables and that's good enough for me.

Still, interesting line we've drawn here.

I wonder what a court of law would do with this?

Yeah and what's copyright and just "we wrote stuff in our EULA"? For that matter, how does this apply to, say, a hardware instrument? Tons of developers sample waverforms and more from hardware synths for sampled emulations in software. There are countless drum libraries consisting of sampled sounds. There's no EULA for hardware instruments (and no copyright). "You may use this 808 in private and commercial music productions. It is not permitted to sample individual drum hits and distribute said samples...". What if it's like a plug-out 808?

(Lol there's gotta be like 10 attorneys and 0 judges that would understand this sh*t. Witeness the awful rulings on music copyright infringement, the Marvin Gaye estate being the latest in absurdity)

At the same time, for example it's reasonable that the owner of a sample library be able to set the terms on redistribution of samples. But unless they sampled banging a pot, should, for example, NI pay Ludwig to sample their drums for Abbey Road. And now they've created virtual copies of said drums (potentially hurting sales for Ludwig), but they can in-turn restrict redistribution of the samples of Ludwig's instrument? Inception-level...

Somewhere between "sawtooth wave" and "60 second sample of Zildjian's big-ass gong" is a gray area.

Anyway, no license or law really matters unless it's enforceable (I don't mean it doesn't matter ethically, just not practically).

[JoeCat]

[chk071]

TBH, i rather see a collision of very different life philosophies as the issue here.

[Urs]

@Urs:

I do not want to prohibit you or sound designers from importing wav files to your product.

As a developer you are responsible for the content of your product. If one of your sound designers illegaly uses copyrighted content from a Tone2 product your product also violates the copyright.

If you want to use our technolgy, wavetables or waveforms you can license them from us.

Please respect our work and our intellectual belongings.

Then we're good. As I said on the phone, we have no plans to distribute (or license) your technolgy, wavetables or waveforms. None.

(which is what I've been saying from the beginning)

[PietW.]

What's all this about? The TE has written something about the Gladiator3 update. Take a look at what you're doing here for a bullshit. Since you are all frustrated with the World Cup or where is your problem? Worse as in kindergarten. This is where musicians meet but no trolls.

[JoeCat]

LOL it ain't the World Cup - it's a Tone2 thread on KVR. Sh*t always gets real...

[mellotronaut]

der Bär und der Bayer

der Bayer und der Saupreiss

[Markus Krause]

@wagtunes:

I do not think that there is anything you need to worry about. If you got more questions about sampling Tone2 products please contact me directly by email. I will examine your request in detail and will answer to you as quickly as possible.

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@Urs Heckmann:

Please contact me in private. We should not discuss business-internals in the public.

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I will now move on and continue to work on the free update for Gladiator.
If you got further questions please send us an email or post in our company forum. We will answer your questions as quickly as possible.

Best Regards,
Markus Krause

[Nielzie]

I like to read some drama here from time to time, but it sucks to see two such talented and established developers with both a great amount of awesome products on the market arguing about this in this manner on a public forum. Hopefuly this will be settled soon, with virtual hugs and compliments and all

[EvilDragon]

Guys, get a beer. It's all good.

[Delta Sign]

I think we should get Aaron Sorkin to make a screenplay out of this thread, maybe get Fincher on board as well. I'm picturing rapid fire dialogs, Fincher's "follow the actor precisely" camera movements and everything cut to Radiohead's "The National Anthem".