4-4-4 chroma is the key -- no disadvantages compared to any other monitor resolution/appearance-wise.Trancit wrote:I´ve seen, that it is a TV...GreyLion wrote: I'm running a 43" Samsung 6290 screen with 4:4:4 Chroma as my monitor.
I´ve read many articles saying, that TV´s aren´t that good for working with working apps like office programms and I think in this category fall our stuff as well...
Do you notice any disadvantages by using that TV as your monitor...
Curious because 4k TV´s are much much cheaper than monitors
is there a solution for 4k screens? Host or plugin with zoom?
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- KVRian
- 750 posts since 3 May, 2018
Have you tried Vital?
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- KVRAF
- 3384 posts since 21 May, 2004 from Deep in the Heartlessness of Texas
Agree with psuper. My last two monitors, going back six or seven years, have been TV's. The dichotomy really is only about marketing. This isn't me and psuper being exotic or making quality compromises .Psuper wrote:4-4-4 chroma is the key -- no disadvantages compared to any other monitor resolution/appearance-wise.Trancit wrote:I´ve seen, that it is a TV...GreyLion wrote: I'm running a 43" Samsung 6290 screen with 4:4:4 Chroma as my monitor.
I´ve read many articles saying, that TV´s aren´t that good for working with working apps like office programms and I think in this category fall our stuff as well...
Do you notice any disadvantages by using that TV as your monitor...
Curious because 4k TV´s are much much cheaper than monitors
Otherwise, about the only things you have to care about are making sure that the tv/monitor and computer have connectors -- generally HDMI 2 or DisplayPort -- that work with each other, and that they will do refreshes at 60 Hz via whatever connector you use. You'll need to make sure that your video card can drive the monitor properly. Beyond that, you're just shopping for preferences in bells and whistles -- and definitely doing your research pre-purchase on the specific product to make sure it's getting good reviews for reliability and no gotchas.
And realize that non-resizeable programs are often unusably and frustratingly small at that high resolution. Except for a few that have simple interfaces and big knobs, I've quit buying those.
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- KVRAF
- 2035 posts since 30 Mar, 2008 from MN, USA
Unfortunately, only on Windows.DJ Warmonger wrote:Live 10 can upscale plugins... or not, you can choose to turn it on and off individually for each.
CLAP Software Database: https://clapdb.tech. KVR Discussion Topic.
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- KVRAF
- 5071 posts since 27 Jul, 2004
Sorry for being a noob in this regard but what is "4-4-4 chroma"???Psuper wrote:...
4-4-4 chroma is the key -- no disadvantages compared to any other monitor resolution/appearance-wise.
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- KVRAF
- 5071 posts since 27 Jul, 2004
How can you make that sure???GreyLion wrote:
...You'll need to make sure that your video card can drive the monitor properly. ...
What does the soundcard need to have beside being 4k and having the matching outputs....?
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- KVRian
- 750 posts since 3 May, 2018
No worries, its not something most people know about. Simply means there's no compression, which translates to the cleanest crispest image possible for that device. Plenty of articles out there that explains it in detail, however its more difficult to actually find out which monitor has it. (I classify any device used for a pc monitor as a monitor, just to clarify).Trancit wrote:Sorry for being a noob in this regard but what is "4-4-4 chroma"???Psuper wrote:...
4-4-4 chroma is the key -- no disadvantages compared to any other monitor resolution/appearance-wise.
As for the
Just make certain your display device has the same type of connectors as your graphics card. Most do, just have a peek at the back panel to verify if you're not sure.How can you make that sure???
What does the soundcard need to have beside being 4k and having the matching outputs....?
Edit: quick link for you here to start: https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/chroma-subsampling
Have you tried Vital?
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- Banned
- 11467 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland
Bitwig deals perfectly with this - its GUI is sharp and VST plug-ins. Live in v10 finally got this right as well.
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- KVRAF
- 3384 posts since 21 May, 2004 from Deep in the Heartlessness of Texas
The core of a video card is the Graphics Processing Unit (GPU), like the core of a computer is the Central Processing Unit (CPU). It has to be powerful enough and fast enough to reliably turn pixels off and on, preferably 60 times a second, at 4K resolution, which is 3840x2160. Technically, this is really UHD, but let's not go down that rabbit hole.
Anyway, this is a lot of pixels and requires a video card with a lot of power. Until about two years ago, these were really expensive gaming cards. Now they're within reasonable consumer price ranges.
There are two main videocard chipset manufacturers -- Nvidia and AMD -- and they're continually in a war to be fastestbestestcheapest. They license out their chipset designs to multiple manufacturers, who tweak the spec to suit themselves, adding more or less memory, overclocking, and so on.
An Nvidia-based GTX960 card is about the oldest slowest one you want to use to drive a 4K screen. But they're increasingly hard to find, as each new generation obliterates the one before it.
I'm running a GTX 1050ti, which I paid $250 for a year ago, and which can be had for about $180 now.
The nearest AMD price/performance equivalent is the Radeon RX560, which goes for about $150.
Which brand and model to buy is the subject of many religious wars across the net.
The main thing to take away is that you'll need to spend between $150-200 to get a good card for 4K. After that, you start worrying about how loud the fan(s) on the card might be, and whether this will be audible when you're recording. And you read a lot of reviews and nevernevernever buy the newest and most-hyped card. Even at the lower price points. You must wait until the manufacturing process and the drivers have stabilized. Remember that gaming drives video card development, not audio or video creation.
EDIT: Incidentally, I once again agree with psuper. I think we're very similar types of geek in this matter. RTINGS is the place to go when you're evaluating monitors. They're ruthless, and are often the only place I can find to determine whether a monitor supports 4:4:4 chroma.
Anyway, this is a lot of pixels and requires a video card with a lot of power. Until about two years ago, these were really expensive gaming cards. Now they're within reasonable consumer price ranges.
There are two main videocard chipset manufacturers -- Nvidia and AMD -- and they're continually in a war to be fastestbestestcheapest. They license out their chipset designs to multiple manufacturers, who tweak the spec to suit themselves, adding more or less memory, overclocking, and so on.
An Nvidia-based GTX960 card is about the oldest slowest one you want to use to drive a 4K screen. But they're increasingly hard to find, as each new generation obliterates the one before it.
I'm running a GTX 1050ti, which I paid $250 for a year ago, and which can be had for about $180 now.
The nearest AMD price/performance equivalent is the Radeon RX560, which goes for about $150.
Which brand and model to buy is the subject of many religious wars across the net.
The main thing to take away is that you'll need to spend between $150-200 to get a good card for 4K. After that, you start worrying about how loud the fan(s) on the card might be, and whether this will be audible when you're recording. And you read a lot of reviews and nevernevernever buy the newest and most-hyped card. Even at the lower price points. You must wait until the manufacturing process and the drivers have stabilized. Remember that gaming drives video card development, not audio or video creation.
EDIT: Incidentally, I once again agree with psuper. I think we're very similar types of geek in this matter. RTINGS is the place to go when you're evaluating monitors. They're ruthless, and are often the only place I can find to determine whether a monitor supports 4:4:4 chroma.
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- KVRian
- 1182 posts since 11 Sep, 2015
not quite yet, 22" to 27" monitors still have more than three quarters of the market share.GreyLion wrote: The old sizes and resolutions are dying quickly.
like many, I don't want to move up from 27", it's a comfortable and economical size for my desk setup, and you couldn't pay me to use 4K at that size, not for gaming and even less for the DAW.
hottest screen right now imo (I'm in the market) is the pg27vq and it's 27@1440p.
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- KVRAF
- 3384 posts since 21 May, 2004 from Deep in the Heartlessness of Texas
I agree that that's probably actually the most usable size and resolution for what we do. My previous rig was two 27" screens and it was excellent. Hit the sweet spot for most VST GUI sizes while still being big enough to give you lots of workspace.
4k as a computer monitor at any size below 40" is just asking for misery. But I stand by my prediction that 4k will easily be the dominant resolution within the next two years for new purchases. It'll probably be murky numbers, since I think a lot of what are being sold as tvs will actually be used as monitors. Doesn't mean that some people won't still cling to using 1080 or 1440 screens, like I cling to Win7.
That 27" Asus pg27vq looks awesome! ...But it also costs twice as much as mine did last fall... And mine is aging tech already. I don't game, but a 43" 4K monitor is great for streaming video. Wish it was better for DAW work.
We can geek out endlessly on this, and I enjoy that. But it's one of those issues that's going to be concretely settled pretty quickly. I'm always betting on biggerbetterfastercheaper for tech.
If Ableton and Bitwig really are able to gracefully increase VST GUI sizes, I hope that tech gets adopted quickly by other DAWs. 8K is just around the corner...
4k as a computer monitor at any size below 40" is just asking for misery. But I stand by my prediction that 4k will easily be the dominant resolution within the next two years for new purchases. It'll probably be murky numbers, since I think a lot of what are being sold as tvs will actually be used as monitors. Doesn't mean that some people won't still cling to using 1080 or 1440 screens, like I cling to Win7.
That 27" Asus pg27vq looks awesome! ...But it also costs twice as much as mine did last fall... And mine is aging tech already. I don't game, but a 43" 4K monitor is great for streaming video. Wish it was better for DAW work.
We can geek out endlessly on this, and I enjoy that. But it's one of those issues that's going to be concretely settled pretty quickly. I'm always betting on biggerbetterfastercheaper for tech.
If Ableton and Bitwig really are able to gracefully increase VST GUI sizes, I hope that tech gets adopted quickly by other DAWs. 8K is just around the corner...
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- KVRAF
- 4589 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw
Well, before Live 10, everybody was like "add it for Windows, Mac already supports high DPI displays". So how is it?teilo wrote:Unfortunately, only on Windows.DJ Warmonger wrote:Live 10 can upscale plugins... or not, you can choose to turn it on and off individually for each.
The point of this thread completely flew over your head, didn't it?4k as a computer monitor at any size below 40" is just asking for misery.
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Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)
Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)
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- Banned
- 11467 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland
For music making?!GreyLion wrote:An Nvidia-based GTX960 card is about the oldest slowest one you want to use to drive a 4K screen.
An embedded graphics chip on i5 or i7 CPUs is enough to drive 1 or 2 4K screens for music production. What you were thinking about is gaming, then I can agree you don't want to go below GTX960 and even that will be too weak for most new games...Actually, to this day most DAWs don't even use dedicated GPU for rendering their GUIs...
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- KVRAF
- 3384 posts since 21 May, 2004 from Deep in the Heartlessness of Texas
That's entirely possible. Not to mention that this thread, like so many on KVR has wandered about a bit. I often tend to focus on my obsessions. A current one is ranting about how so many VSTs and DAWs are unusably small on my 43" 4K monitor. Trying to use them at that resolution on a smaller one would be torture. Until updates come out that let you freely resize GUIs. Are you taking something else away from this discussion?DJ Warmonger wrote:The point of this thread completely flew over your head, didn't it?4k as a computer monitor at any size below 40" is just asking for misery.