All these newbies getting spoon fed everything.

[jancivil]

It's a complex topic. Simply changes in signs of the times. Too much information and resources floating around at the same time!

I don't find it terrifically complex. One thing I'm sure of is that people learned how to make much more involved music than what Teh Producahs do today, somehow not needing Youtube tutorials at all.

What we actually have in the 'information age' is people using the world wide web who aren't even literate, while finding a forum for their malformed, uninformed, misinformed views and comments. And disinformation campaigns are very easy to manufacture. More isn't turning to be more, so much, to my view.

Me, I'm benefitting from the embarrassment of riches today and many are. There may well be more 'good music' produced but that may be ancillary to the point, facility of technology; there would seem to be a tendency for the people driven to make the best music they can to find a way. There may have been dropouts as well, who have an easier way so that's a positive; how do we compute the balance? There is no way to know, no proofs of this available to us, I don't think.

[benheman]

I agree Jancivil. Much of the music produced in the past could actually stand toe to toe with some of the best stuff produced today.The art of producing music from the raw is mostly lost to today's proliferation of "everything you need" resources and sampling... Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, except that true natural talent isn't necessarily needed. Everybody could become a STAR overnight!

[richielg]

I originally posted this out of frustration towards my good friend. He is anything but a kid in fact he's actually older than me. It was just an expression to describe a particular attitude towards work/learning and also to reflect on the modern way that we consume information. Essentially he's living off his inheritance and completely deluded to the idea that he's going to make a living as a music producer. No matter what I try I just can't get him to think for him self. I can't convince him to actually learn the instruments and explore them on his own accord. So his palette is restricted to what other people think is a good idea for him to do so to speak. Don't get me wrong I watch tutorials too if there is a specific thing or I'm really stuck or a particular sound just doesn't want to come out and I think they are great resource. But nothing has ever compared to the knowledge I acquired through reading books explaining the theory of how these instruments and effects and the mixer etc actually work on a deeper level and applying that to my productions in the way that I choose to through experimentation. And supplementing that knowledge with the user manual for specific instruments etc to understand how to apply it to that specific interface. Music production is driven by the tools and instruments you use and in my opinion unless you carve out your own way of working based on what you want to achieve then you'r music is quite likely going to sound generic, boring and amateur. Your work flow doesn't need to be super complicated. It just needs to be YOURS. Basically there are two music industries now. The music industry where people produce music for people to listen to and the music industry where people take money from amateur producers who don't understand that they need to teach them selves in order to succeed. When I was young we used to make music using all sorts of things, anything we could find. None of us had much money. We just used to find instruments in bins, inherit them, borrow them or beg the parents. We would make really interesting and bizarre music with these limitations. I remember once I got a zoom multi fx guitar pedal and created a feedback loop by just looping its self into it without any audio going through, took that signal and run it into a consumer hifi so I can use the eq on it and then get a sm58 and record straight onto tape lol! I lost all those tapes. They were probably shit haha. Anyway I learned doing crazy stuff like that. I learned by not having anything. I always have to remind my self now with the limitless options I have to restrict my self and really learn the instrument and really get inside it under its skin. You see this is a big problem too. The limitless options combined with a sea of really dumbed down information. It creates this kind of ohhh that preset doesn't sound good on this synth lets try another synth mentality. Can you imagine the absurdity of someone who has no idea how to use synthesisers being stuck inside a studio the size of a warehouse full of practically every classic synthesiser ever made with free reign to use them as long as they like? Well reality is not too far from this for a lot of people.

[Reefius]

The ENTER button is your friend. Pressing it once in a while divides your text into paragraphs which make it much easier to read.

As it is now I don't even bother trying to read it because it will give me a headache, and I think I'm not the only one.

[Acid Mitch]

Advanced technology lets us make more and better music faster.

When I listen the output of 1950-2018, to me it seem that on the contrary, its harder to make good music with the advanced tech.

That’s only because so many of the good pattern and sound combinations have already been used and it gets harder to find unique or uncommon combnations that sound as good.
I like acid/house/techno alot and there’s a few people (Mills, Hood, DJ Pierre,Felix da housecat and a few others) who released records back in the 80’s and early 90’s with all the best patterns that you stumble across when you experiment with the tr909, etc. No point just doing it all again.
It’s the same for people experimenting with distorted guitar and blues riffs. You start finding all the things that Black Sabbath and the like were releasing weather you intend to sound like them or not.

If we had todays technology without having the past 100 years of written and recorded music then people would be churning out the hits faster than they used to.

[jsp1979]

Whenever I see people complaining about the new generation, I find it odd that they never talk about the fact that its their own generation that either (a) raised these people or (b) had kids that raised these people.

Maybe their actions say something about us "older" folks. Or maybe, just maybe, the entire generation is not represented by the anecdotal handful of examples you've run across.

[coolbass]

Advanced technology lets us make more and better music faster.

When I listen the output of 1950-2018, to me it seem that on the contrary, its harder to make good music with the advanced tech.

That’s only because so many of the good pattern and sound combinations have already been used and it gets harder to find unique or uncommon combnations that sound as good.
I like acid/house/techno alot and there’s a few people (Mills, Hood, DJ Pierre,Felix da housecat and a few others) who released records back in the 80’s and early 90’s with all the best patterns that you stumble across when you experiment with the tr909, etc. No point just doing it all again.
It’s the same for people experimenting with distorted guitar and blues riffs. You start finding all the things that Black Sabbath and the like were releasing weather you intend to sound like them or not.

If we had todays technology without having the past 100 years of written and recorded music then people would be churning out the hits faster than they used to.

This is so ignorant.

[benheman]

Totally agree richielg. You nailed it. Its like all these people with money to burn, simply buying every NEW software synth or plugins that comes out, and deciding "which one sounds best" based on the presets and song demos that the crafty sound designers and vendors offer on the websites...with glossy eye-candy Ads to match! So you end up just buying one synth or plugin after another, trying to get "that perfect sound"
You eventually become too lazy to explore and experiment... by just buying a couple of really good synths or plugins, and then diving in... tweaking and messing with the controls and engines to produce that really unique sound that you seek after! I guess you eventually end up buying a whole bunch of modern gadgets and programs...always waiting for the next big one. You never really get to make music...cos you're waiting for the BIG ONE to land in your arsenal. In the past you worked really hard to come out with the best from whatever you have. Your creativity was unique!

[sjm]

Paragraphs please. You can Google what they are, or try a video tutorial.

[mgw38]

Whenever I see people complaining about the new generation, I find it odd that they never talk about the fact that its their own generation that either (a) raised these people or (b) had kids that raised these people.

Maybe their actions say something about us "older" folks. Or maybe, just maybe, the entire generation is not represented by the anecdotal handful of examples you've run across.

It is actually not necessarily a generational issue, it is a technological issue. It is just that the young generation picks these things up much quicker which is why it usually manifests itself that way. It also does not necessarily have anything to do with how kids are raised or how they are educated. It is a result of how society changes as a result of technological disruption. And, most importantly, it is also not necessarily a negativ development. It simply is a cultural change. Some things are lost in that process, some things are gained. That is the way it always was and that is also the way it is always going to be.

[Gamma-UT]

A lot of these complaints are also based on unrepresentative samples. In every field in every time you get people who want stuff fast and never stick with it when it gets hard. An entire music movement was based on the idea that you didn't have to learn an instrument, you could just turn up (though it was 90% a lie - it was just that punk wasn't nearly as intricate as prog rock).

There's a very young, vibrant jazz and crossover jazz scene where I can guarantee you, no-one has taken a short cut. The only difference is that they're not very visible online because they're not posting "you suck" comments on YouTube tutorials.

But don't let me stop the "youf today" circle jerk.

[thecontrolcentre]

I don't think willful ignorance is a generational thing. I know plenty of middle-aged folk who buy synths, sequencers, etc and have no ability to play them and no understanding of what the controls do. They watch youtube vids where it all looks easy, and buy that synth because they think its easy.

A friend of mine has bought and sold in the region of 20 hardware synths over the last 10 years. He has no ability, no understanding of music, has never read a manual and continues to believe its the gear that's the cause of his lack of creativity. He is currently talking about selling his ARP Odyssey & SQ1 to buy a "groovebox" ... this will be the third time he's made exactly that mistake. He's 45.

[jsp1979]

Whenever I see people complaining about the new generation, I find it odd that they never talk about the fact that its their own generation that either (a) raised these people or (b) had kids that raised these people.

Maybe their actions say something about us "older" folks. Or maybe, just maybe, the entire generation is not represented by the anecdotal handful of examples you've run across.

It is actually not necessarily a generational issue, it is a technological issue. It is just that the young generation picks these things up much quicker which is why it usually manifests itself that way. It also does not necessarily have anything to do with how kids are raised or how they are educated. It is a result of how society changes as a result of technological disruption. And, most importantly, it is also not necessarily a negativ development. It simply is a cultural change. Some things are lost in that process, some things are gained. That is the way it always was and that is also the way it is always going to be.

In case it wasn't clear, my post was directed people who complain about the "new" generation, not about the new generation. I didn't really express an opinion on the kids these days.

[dellboy]

I don't think willful ignorance is a generational thing. I know plenty of middle-aged folk who buy synths, sequencers, etc and have no ability to play them and no understanding of what the controls do. They watch youtube vids where it all looks easy, and buy that synth because they think its easy.

A friend of mine has bought and sold in the region of 20 hardware synths over the last 10 years. He has no ability, no understanding of music, has never read a manual and continues to believe its the gear that's the cause of his lack of creativity. He is currently talking about selling his ARP Odyssey & SQ1 to buy a "groovebox" ... this will be the third time he's made exactly that mistake. He's 45.

I had a friend like that.

He burned through money at an alarming rate buying every new hardware synth that hit the streets.

We sort of fell out as friends when I suggested that he might try learning to play them.

Years later I bumped into him and he acknowledged that others had told him the same.

It was great for me though as I got to try every new hardware synth going for several years

[thecontrolcentre]

It was great for me though as I got to try every new hardware synth going for several years

Same here. Currently I have his Korg Odyssey & SQ-1 ... It was an MS-20 last month. Maybe a new groovebox next week