All these newbies getting spoon fed everything.

[dellboy]

Its very easy to make music today.

But the majority of it will be lost in the vast oceans of music on SoundCloud and YouTube.

Meanwhile, in 2014, the handwritten lyrics of "Like a Rolling Stone" By Bob Dylan made a world record at auction of $2 million.

Dylan's main music creation tool for this song was four sheets of hotel notepaper and a pen.

[chk071]

Another example of these talentless PUSH users ...


I blame the parents

Still not a way i'd want to make music.

I didn't call anyone talentless, BTW. So, no need to feel butthurt over things which only happen in your imagination.

Don't presume everything is about you and maybe take your own advice rather than dishing it out inappropriately.

Ok then. WHO said Ableton Push users are talentless? I'll answer it for you: Noone did.

[sjm]

Why, are you a member of the People's Front of Plataea?

No, he‘s a member of the Plataean People‘s Front. Or is was it the Platean Front of People? Or the Platean People Front?

The Popular Plataean Liberation Front. Join us now, and banish paragraph-less forum posts back to where they belong.

[sjm]

I envy young people who can learn a complex software with a 30 minute tutorial in a fun way, which used to take a week to read the whole (often too short and pretentious written) manual and months of completely unnecessary trial & error (even if this often results in good and creative mistakes - statistically still a wate of time), just completely inefficient.

Conversely, I pity them for all the 3-minute how-to videos that would be 4 bullets in a numbered list and take 2 seconds to find the information you need. Why do people even make these things?

I'm presuming the answer is in this thread


But more to the point: I don't think anyone has an issue with their being a wealth of tutorials out there - that's how the people who are going to learn on their own might well learn on their own. It's the mindset that goes with the lazy posts that's the issue; the assumption that you don't need to actually put any effort in of your own. The idea that the secret to unleashing creativity is to watch the right tutorials, not to discover your own musical voice.

There's loads of good tutorials out there. But one thing I have never seen a good tutorial for is "How to be a creative and interesting music artist". And that's because, while there are some tricks of the trade, that's not something that you can really learn from a tutorial. It would be no more than painting by numbers anyway.

[groovyomega]

I think it's the wrong assumption to believe that people looking for a shortcut or an answer that gets straight to the point are lazy. I think this somehow laziness is what's driving innovation in the end. You are "too lazy" to constantly grab your mouse - invent a Push or Machine (which the OP seems to be using). You don't want to constantly change the volume, invent or simply buy a compressor. I don't see any laziness, I see intelligence.

And a virtual good or service is nothing more than a compressor. A YouTube video is a shortcut, instead of reading a monotone manual or just fumbling around without any plan.

I don't want to put effort into constructing my own airplane, neither can I swim overseas. Am I lazy because I book an airplane with a few mouse clicks to get from point a to b (environmental aspects aside)?

I can't relate to that, sorry. I don't see a difference between such things and education.

If someone needs the experience, he can try around as he wants - this industry lives from it too - but I find it wrong to condemn people who want to reach their technical goals quickly - I don't want to carve my guitar from wood itself, but simply want to make music... yes, and even with only three easy chords I learned from YouTube just to impress the chicks...

[sjm]

And even with only three easy chords I learned from YouTube just to impress the chicks...

You should have just got a robot. Much easier than actually learning is have something do it for you.




While we're at it: to what extent to you think the person who made that video posted "How to mk a robto band?" and let everyone else do the hard work? And to what extent did they put in a lot of effort themselves?

[groovyomega]

There you can see again how limited your way of thinking can be (no offense anyone) or how much one can think in deadlocked paths and set oneself completely subjective limits.

A DAW like Ableton Live is much more of a robot than what you can see in this video. Anyone who uses a metronome, arpeggiator or quantisation already uses a robot.

What kind of lazy bunch are you, can't even play in time? Too lazy to practice?
What kind of lazy bunch are you, can't even play arpeggios by hand? Too lazy to practice?
What kind of lazy bunch are you, not able to play exactly on spot? Too lazy to practice?

See how stupid that is?

I don't want to practice for years before I can keep the beat accurate to a few ms without a metronome. I also want to make music, with a lousy sense of rhythm (even though I used to be a temporary drummer.) I love quantisation, I really do. Hell, I love the Groove Pool in Ableton Live, oh yes I do!

If I would like to construct a robot band, yeah, I would probably write this guy and ask for any tips and shortcuts I can get. Why should I have to re-invent the wheel? What for? Dude, I don't have to mine my own steel or dig for copper to make my own cables or robots - just that some grumpy old man is happy that he's not the only one who had or has obviously some tough times in his musical life (no offense to anyone).
All this globalised social media thing is such a great pool of creative minds and ideas. We do even talk to each other here on this forum because someone shared or sold his code for a forum. I don't hink that KVR Audio, Inc. had to invent the internet itself to create this forum. Even the plug-in developers use modular code frameworks like JUCE, so they don't have to program the lame old MIDI modul every time again for example.

It's about evolution, development and progress. These younger people can concentrate on other things in their music than loosing time while maintaining a tape machines...

[whyterabbyt]

poster who's only been here since 2012 wiffles about 'newbies'

i laughs.

[chk071]

True. You gotta be at least a member since 2010 to call others newbies.

[whyterabbyt]

Indeed. January 1st 2010. Newb.

[chk071]

[martinjuenke]

Does anyone else notice a trend among new producers wanting to be spoon fed information - particularly about Ableton? Its a lazy and unconstructive way to learn music production. I mean if you need an Ableton 10 course to tell you how to set up your DAW then your either an absolute beginner which is fine but if your not then you should probably pack it in. I mean the kids these days they expect just to be able to watch a series of youtube videos and then be able to produce. How do they ever learn from making mistakes and create their own unique way of working? This lazy, not wanting to read the manual or text books on the subject approach to learning is leading people to create generic music because you are just allowing someone else to define how they think you should work rather than defining that your self. The thought process should be "I want to achieve this sound, how can I adapt my work flow and use particular tools to achieve this and what do I need to learn in order to do so?" Then pick up the god damn manual or read a book! Im so sick of these lazy generic producers that don't understand how to learn for them selves. You think Andrew Weatherall or the Chemical Brothers had endless Youtube videos spoon feeding them exactly what to do back in the early 90's? They figured it out for them selves by making tons of mistakes, understanding the instruments and the processes behind the music, developing their critical listening skills and then defining their own way of working. The Kids of today man I tell you.

Grumpy old man

[groovyomega]

Here is indeed a YouTube tutorial to build your own robot - and it can even make buzzing noises - I suppose we do have a little robot musician here?
At least some of the experimental music from older members here on the forum doesn't sound much different than the buzzing of this bug (sorry again, no offense). Maybe that's why the SoundCloud follower number of these members rarely rises above 10... (ok, now I'm getting mean, I don't want that, I'm just kidding )

[sjm]

Watching a video is not the same as posting a question expecting to be spoofed. Can you not tell the difference?

[groovyomega]

In fact, I'm not following you right now. Do you refer to the spoiled youth in general, the robot building guy or do you mean yourself?