Yeah! Come on, guys! 2000 pages by the end of the yearHink wrote:Wrong thread, you want continue this sentence with 3 wordsvurt wrote:the rolling stones?Hink wrote:Then curdleseventually only the cream rises to the top.
All these newbies getting spoon fed everything.
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el-bo (formerly ebow) el-bo (formerly ebow) https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=208007
- KVRAF
- 18052 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away
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- KVRist
- 168 posts since 18 Oct, 2017
Weird. The real reason is that most manuals are written by people who should not write manuals in the first place!
I'm pretty sure most of them manual guys/girls are lousy writers; probably the only thing left for them to get a job as a writer...
As I am a complete moron lacking any self-confidence, I insist manuals should be addressed to people like me. Which could make this world a far better place
I'm pretty sure most of them manual guys/girls are lousy writers; probably the only thing left for them to get a job as a writer...
As I am a complete moron lacking any self-confidence, I insist manuals should be addressed to people like me. Which could make this world a far better place
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- KVRAF
- 8037 posts since 28 Dec, 2015 from Atlantis Island
The manuals of MADRONA LABS are really good. An obvious exemption of your rule...Woodgardens wrote:Weird. The real reason is that most manuals are written by people who should not write manuals in the first place!
I'm pretty sure most of them manual guys/girls are lousy writers; probably the only thing left for them to get a job as a writer...
As I am a complete moron lacking any self-confidence, I insist manuals should be addressed to people like me. Which could make this world a far better place
https://sonograyn.bandcamp.com/music Experimental Ambient
https://martinjuenke.bandcamp.com/music Alternative Instrumental
https://martinjuenke.bandcamp.com/music Alternative Instrumental
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- KVRist
- 168 posts since 18 Oct, 2017
@martinjuenke
I'm sorry, but I was referring to DAW manuals.
I'm sorry, but I was referring to DAW manuals.
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- KVRAF
- 8037 posts since 28 Dec, 2015 from Atlantis Island
Then let’s hope that there will be a DAW from MADRONA LABS in the future...Woodgardens wrote:@martinjuenke
I'm sorry, but I was referring to DAW manuals.
https://sonograyn.bandcamp.com/music Experimental Ambient
https://martinjuenke.bandcamp.com/music Alternative Instrumental
https://martinjuenke.bandcamp.com/music Alternative Instrumental
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- KVRAF
- 3086 posts since 4 May, 2012
I don't think that getting a job as a writer is easy. It would be wonderful if that was a job anyone could get.Woodgardens wrote:Weird. The real reason is that most manuals are written by people who should not write manuals in the first place!
I'm pretty sure most of them manual guys/girls are lousy writers; probably the only thing left for them to get a job as a writer...
As I am a complete moron lacking any self-confidence, I insist manuals should be addressed to people like me. Which could make this world a far better place
Whilst I haven't had to read much of DAW manuals (Pro Tools was taught to me in person) I do find FL Studio's manual to be an easy read. Logic is okay but I ditched the program and Apple OS. I installed Reaper recently and found that to be quite unintuitive. It probably deserves another shot as my bass player/writing partner prefers it to Pro Tools.
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- KVRAF
- 35684 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
Most plugin manuals seem to have been written by the developers themselves.Unaspected wrote:I don't think that getting a job as a writer is easy. It would be wonderful if that was a job anyone could get.Woodgardens wrote:Weird. The real reason is that most manuals are written by people who should not write manuals in the first place!
I'm pretty sure most of them manual guys/girls are lousy writers; probably the only thing left for them to get a job as a writer...
As I am a complete moron lacking any self-confidence, I insist manuals should be addressed to people like me. Which could make this world a far better place
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- KVRAF
- 6113 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America
I agree about lousy manuals.
Tech and instructional writing was something I did at two of my jobs and many of my co-workers thought I did it well (in fact, writing better instructions than the official manuals seemed to get me in trouble with the developers at Kensington, for whom I was part of their consumer tech support).
Many developers are absolutely lousy at communication, let alone instruction. Hell, they're bad at interface design most of the time, too. There's a lot of presumption and defensiveness (and arrogance) in that line of work. The techy consumers who figure it out don't usually act much better when dealing with newbies, either. It's a culture I have hated since the second year of my many years of tech support work.
When it comes to "market and audience competitive" interests (art and music), there seems to be a notable amount of elitism against, and hatred of, newbies (as potential "bad taste competition"?)...
...and then there's the gaming and tech geek "communities", which are even cult-like. And the generation hate (I don't participate in the disgusting anti-millennial scapegoating).
Like this thread. It's anti-social behavior.
Tech and instructional writing was something I did at two of my jobs and many of my co-workers thought I did it well (in fact, writing better instructions than the official manuals seemed to get me in trouble with the developers at Kensington, for whom I was part of their consumer tech support).
Many developers are absolutely lousy at communication, let alone instruction. Hell, they're bad at interface design most of the time, too. There's a lot of presumption and defensiveness (and arrogance) in that line of work. The techy consumers who figure it out don't usually act much better when dealing with newbies, either. It's a culture I have hated since the second year of my many years of tech support work.
When it comes to "market and audience competitive" interests (art and music), there seems to be a notable amount of elitism against, and hatred of, newbies (as potential "bad taste competition"?)...
...and then there's the gaming and tech geek "communities", which are even cult-like. And the generation hate (I don't participate in the disgusting anti-millennial scapegoating).
Like this thread. It's anti-social behavior.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud
my music @ SoundCloud
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- KVRAF
- 5383 posts since 25 Jan, 2014 from The End of The World as We Knowit
I recently worked with a terrific developer to translate the manual for a real-time composition DAW that I wanted to understand better.
Because the software was so flexible (modular, scripting, etc), the manual described only the features and few of the possible uses.
I realised we users need to make a major creative effort to properly read a manual and understand the possibilities inherent in the developer's design.
Because the software was so flexible (modular, scripting, etc), the manual described only the features and few of the possible uses.
I realised we users need to make a major creative effort to properly read a manual and understand the possibilities inherent in the developer's design.
F E E D
Y O U R
F L O W
Y O U R
F L O W
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- Beware the Quoth
- 35482 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
Indeed. Only developers and tech support should be scapegoated.Jace-BeOS wrote:I don't participate in the disgusting anti-millennial scapegoating.
An idiot on Set Theory:
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
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- KVRAF
- 3086 posts since 4 May, 2012
That would be my understanding. At least - that's how the manuals tend to read. It makes sense though - who knows the product better than the development team.chk071 wrote:Most plugin manuals seem to have been written by the developers themselves.Unaspected wrote:I don't think that getting a job as a writer is easy. It would be wonderful if that was a job anyone could get.Woodgardens wrote:Weird. The real reason is that most manuals are written by people who should not write manuals in the first place!
I'm pretty sure most of them manual guys/girls are lousy writers; probably the only thing left for them to get a job as a writer...
As I am a complete moron lacking any self-confidence, I insist manuals should be addressed to people like me. Which could make this world a far better place
It does seem like the OP was written to see who it might set off. Or maybe it was cathartic for the poster.Jace-BeOS wrote:Like this thread. It's anti-social behavior.
I'm not sure about the "spoon feeding" of everything but it does surprise me how many people will post on a forum just to ask if they can experiment with software. It seems that there are a lot of timid people online who need their hands holding to explore. I suspect that is more of a psychological matter than an indication of their ability to learn - though it obviously impacts on their ability to teach themselves and I wonder how such people can be creative if they won't experiment by nature.
Everyone is different though; there is no universal path to understanding.
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thecontrolcentre thecontrolcentre https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=76240 - KVRAF
- 37262 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from Scottish Borders
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experimental.crow experimental.crow https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=6258
- KVRAF
- 6895 posts since 9 Mar, 2003 from the bridge of sighs
can you link me to a YT video , on how to do that ?...thecontrolcentre wrote:Absolutely. Lets get 'emwhyterabbyt wrote:Indeed. Only developers and tech support should be scapegoated.Jace-BeOS wrote:I don't participate in the disgusting anti-millennial scapegoating.
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- KVRAF
- 7001 posts since 20 Mar, 2012 from Babbleon
If reading manuals is the way to go then governments should fire all the teachers and maybe rehire them as writers of manuals? But then later on all the teachers will be dead and the writers of manuals won't be ex-teachers anymore. But that would be okay because if governments can educate teachers to be teachers then maybe they could also educate people to be writers of manuals. But I bet governments won't do that. So...
I'm a "student" of REAPER. I sort of know how to use REAPER version 0.999 for my currently basic needs but I'm lost when it comes to REAPER 5.91, the version that I am evaluating now, with dealing with those same basic expanding needs. I plan to buy REAPER 6.0 partly because I'm very grateful because the newer version of REAPER has saved me hours and hours and hours of working with midi if done the wrong way, only because an independent guru bothered to address my problem.
I need REAPER gurus more so than manuals. I was hoping the REAPER people would spend money for a dedicated "very good" support department and hire gurus to deal with newbies like me. They could hire knowledgeable people to answer all the "stupid" questions that newbies ask. Spoon fed them. That way, newbies don't have to learn the entire manual.
And newbies won't have to interrupt people in chat forums. And newbies, via the support department, can also just re-ask questions about stuff they have forgotten. People say Kurt Cobain had ADD, I wonder what his opinion of manuals would have been.
Yes because if your memory is bad, manuals are forgettable. Sort of like that Kodachrome song (except the first line because thinking back is possible, hazily) by Paul Simon:
When I think back
On all the crap I learned in high school
It's a wonder
I can think at all
And though my lack of education
Hasn't hurt me none
I can read the writing on the wall
I'm a "student" of REAPER. I sort of know how to use REAPER version 0.999 for my currently basic needs but I'm lost when it comes to REAPER 5.91, the version that I am evaluating now, with dealing with those same basic expanding needs. I plan to buy REAPER 6.0 partly because I'm very grateful because the newer version of REAPER has saved me hours and hours and hours of working with midi if done the wrong way, only because an independent guru bothered to address my problem.
I need REAPER gurus more so than manuals. I was hoping the REAPER people would spend money for a dedicated "very good" support department and hire gurus to deal with newbies like me. They could hire knowledgeable people to answer all the "stupid" questions that newbies ask. Spoon fed them. That way, newbies don't have to learn the entire manual.
And newbies won't have to interrupt people in chat forums. And newbies, via the support department, can also just re-ask questions about stuff they have forgotten. People say Kurt Cobain had ADD, I wonder what his opinion of manuals would have been.
Yes because if your memory is bad, manuals are forgettable. Sort of like that Kodachrome song (except the first line because thinking back is possible, hazily) by Paul Simon:
When I think back
On all the crap I learned in high school
It's a wonder
I can think at all
And though my lack of education
Hasn't hurt me none
I can read the writing on the wall
ah böwakawa poussé poussé
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thecontrolcentre thecontrolcentre https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=76240
- KVRAF
- 37262 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from Scottish Borders
This one explains perfectly ...experimental.crow wrote:can you link me to a YT video , on how to do that ?...thecontrolcentre wrote:Absolutely. Lets get 'emwhyterabbyt wrote:Indeed. Only developers and tech support should be scapegoated.Jace-BeOS wrote:I don't participate in the disgusting anti-millennial scapegoating.