Tone2 Gladiator 3 (public beta)

[Urs]

If you want to use our tools or wavetables to create content for non-Tone2 synths contact us. Tell us for what purpose you want to use. You'll usually get our permission. It is as simple as that.

But if I only want to use your tools, i.e. not your wavetables, not your presets, not any of your content, to create content for non-Tone2 synths, why would I need to ask for permission? If I have a proper license, I'm only bound to the EULA, not your merits.

It would certainly be nice to ask for an okay if I wanted to recommend your stuff, since I presume you have trademarks on your company and synth names.

[fmr]

http://www.tone2.com/Resynthesis_Tool_f ... iator2.zip

Markus's link has a link to another thread:
http://www.tone2.org/forum/index.php?topic=196

which has the link I posted above.

that doesn't work?
rsp

Thanks.

That second link points to anoter thread, which asks me a user ID and password to access it. As I said, I don't want to create "another" User ID to "another" proprietary forum.

[Cinebient]

This thread shows what´s wrong in the unfriendly desktop plug-in world...
I like Tone 2 as well as U-he products but maybe i should consider to ignore these

[fmr]

If you want to use our tools or wavetables to create content for non-Tone2 synths contact us. Tell us for what purpose you want to use. You'll usually get our permission. It is as simple as that.

But if I only want to use your tools, i.e. not your wavetables, not your presets, not any of your content, to create content for non-Tone2 synths, why would I need to ask for permission? If I have a proper license, I'm only bound to the EULA, not your merits.

Yes, that's the part I find problematic, too. Not that I would have any problem contacting Tone 2, but what if they asked for a payment, in case I was thinking in creating content to be sold in a library for another product? I would certainly not accept that.

As was said, "if I only want to use your tools, i.e. not your wavetables, not your presets, not any of your content, to create content for non-Tone2 synths" I think I am entitled to do that, and I have no further obligations whatsoever. No problem in contact Tone 2, or even in putting a mention that a Tone 2 product was used to create the wavetables, but that's pretty much as far as I would go.

[Markus Krause]

We usually do not care if a hobby-sounddesigner hurts the EULA and uses our tools to create content without our permission . We never did or will sue anyone because of that. However we recommend to get a permission. Tell us in what context you want to use it. Usually you will get our permission. It is just sending an email and asking. It is as simple as that.

However we care if a big, competing company like u-he which makes $xxxxxxx per year uses our know-how and intelectual efforts to create factory content for a competing wavetable synthesizer.

[Delta Sign]

I don't think this was ever about using Tone2 products for factory content. It was just about a "We recommend using x and y tool/synth for generating wavetables for U-He product z!" line in the manual.

Most synths/tools that can do this will be on that list, Tone2 products won't. No big deal.

[Markus Krause]

Yes sure

[zvenx]

http://www.tone2.com/Resynthesis_Tool_f ... iator2.zip

Markus's link has a link to another thread:
http://www.tone2.org/forum/index.php?topic=196

which has the link I posted above.

that doesn't work?
rsp

Thanks.

That second link points to anoter thread, which asks me a user ID and password to access it. As I said, I don't want to create "another" User ID to "another" proprietary forum.

oh oh, I hope haven't circumvented Markus's system.
rsp

[Markus Krause]

No problem. Your link is fine

[fmr]

We usually do not care if a hobby-sounddesigner hurts the EULA and uses our tools to create content without our permission . We never did or will sue anyone because of that. However we recommend to get a permission. Tell us in what context you want to use it. Usually you will get our permission. It is just sending an email and asking. It is as simple as that.

However we care if a big, competing company like u-he which makes $xxxxxxx per year uses our know-how and intelectual efforts to create factory content for a competing wavetable synthesizer.

Hi Markus:

Yes, based on previous contacts I had with Tone 2, I had the idea that would be the case. I'm glad you confirmed that though.

Regarding Urs:

I know him personally since a very long time, even before U-He existed. We met because I was part of the Emagic betatesting team back then, and Urs was an evangelist for the new AU format that was then created by Apple. That's when and why he started creating plug-ins.

I was an early adopter, and bought Zebra 1 on pre-launch. I pretty much bought anything else since then, collaborated with betatesting, some presets, and we usually met each year during the Musimesse for a drink. I can testify that Urs is a great guy, and I think you could be friends. He competes in a very transparent and correct way (my opinion, of course), and I think that if you two talk with an open mind and without second toughts, that would be mutually beneficial.

I second the idea that he was not thinking in using Tone 2 products to create content, just to list them as possible tools for users to create content. That would be ultimately good for you, IMO.

[zvenx]

No problem. Your link is fine

Great had removed it but put it back up.
rsp

[mevla]

I tried Gladiator 3, since this is the topic, but was not too impressed and that might be due to the style of music. However, I also tried Icarus and now, that synth has quite a few creative possibilities for the type of music I usually aim for. And it's also nice to see that here are a certain number of soundsets available to extend the range. Pretty sure Icarus will be part of the synth arsenal.

Still have to try Nemesis and Ray Blaster.

The way the demos are made I find facilitates getting a feel for the sounds. Instead of having distracting noise/silence popping periodically, the use of the synth is limited in time. Might not be the best copy protection around, don't know, but is more user friendly.

Cheers/Tschüß

[zvenx]

Bear in mind Gladiator is probably around 10 years or more old by now.. I bought it in January 2009 and i think it had been out for awhile before then, so yes it is possible it may sound very dated by now

With Icarus to me Tone2 went to a new level.
rsp

[Urs]

I don't think this was ever about using Tone2 products for factory content. It was just about a "We recommend using x and y tool/synth for generating wavetables for U-He product z!" line in the manual.

Most synths/tools that can do this will be on that list, Tone2 products won't. No big deal.

It's a question of principle. I buy a license to a tool, I can use it as I want, unless I infringe intellectual property. Several Tone2 products let me load my own IP (samples) and transform it - the functions are built into it, hence it's their intended use. This is what the license lets me do. Once I save the result, it's still my IP. Not theirs. Just like slapping a few filters in Photoshop does not give Adobe any IP on my photos.

We had indeed fabled about using Icarus, which seems to have brilliant wavetable editing tools, to create factory content to an upcoming product release. The new Gladiator3 export function seemed like icing on the cake. There's literally nothing preventing us from doing that on the legal side. But of course, in respect of Markus' wishes, we will not.

[Stefken]

Just like slapping a few filters in Photoshop does not give Adobe any IP on my photos.

I think the right comparison with creating wavetables would be to create brushes in Photoshop to be used as resource in your own graphic application. I think Adobe might have a few words to say about that too. ....