All these newbies getting spoon fed everything.

[vurt]

I don't participate in the disgusting anti-millennial scapegoating.

Indeed. Only developers and tech support should be scapegoated.

i disagree.
i think all robbie williams hits should be used as scapegoats. or curried goat.

[martinjuenke]

I don't participate in the disgusting anti-millennial scapegoating.

Indeed. Only developers and tech support should be scapegoated.

i disagree.
i think all robbie williams hits should be used as scapegoats. or curried goat.

Hey, what about Rick Astley?

[vurt]

I don't participate in the disgusting anti-millennial scapegoating.

Indeed. Only developers and tech support should be scapegoated.

i disagree.
i think all robbie williams hits should be used as scapegoats. or curried goat.

Hey, what about Rick Astley?

how did you find my secret identity?

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

I don't participate in the disgusting anti-millennial scapegoating.

Indeed. Only developers and tech support should be scapegoated.

i disagree.
i think all robbie williams hits should be used as scapegoats. or curried goat.

Hey, what about Rick Astley?

how did you find my secret identity?

It wasn't me...Honest They tried everything to get me to reveal your identity, but I was never gonna give you up.

[Acid Mitch]

We’re no strangers to Vurt,
You know the rules, and so do I

[JJ_Jettflow]

Does anyone else notice a trend among new producers wanting to be spoon fed information - particularly about Ableton? Its a lazy and unconstructive way to learn music production. I mean if you need an Ableton 10 course to tell you how to set up your DAW then your either an absolute beginner which is fine but if your not then you should probably pack it in. I mean the kids these days they expect just to be able to watch a series of youtube videos and then be able to produce. How do they ever learn from making mistakes and create their own unique way of working? This lazy, not wanting to read the manual or text books on the subject approach to learning is leading people to create generic music because you are just allowing someone else to define how they think you should work rather than defining that your self. The thought process should be "I want to achieve this sound, how can I adapt my work flow and use particular tools to achieve this and what do I need to learn in order to do so?" Then pick up the god damn manual or read a book! Im so sick of these lazy generic producers that don't understand how to learn for them selves. You think Andrew Weatherall or the Chemical Brothers had endless Youtube videos spoon feeding them exactly what to do back in the early 90's? They figured it out for them selves by making tons of mistakes, understanding the instruments and the processes behind the music, developing their critical listening skills and then defining their own way of working. The Kids of today man I tell you.

So I guess if someone came up to you and asked for directions you would tell them "buy a map"?


Seriously, you realize that they are posting in what is considered to be "community" forums right? You understand as well that you are not obligated to answer them or even read the posts if you do not wish, right? And as for the "read the manual" retort I say no problem....give a real manual to read. A long time ago, way before the Chemical Brothers, software used to come with a printed manual, sometimes in a binder and sometimes bound, but it came as a tangible object. But then one day, they quietly started to be replaced with these crap PDF files...of course, the cost of software did not drop any with this obvious drop in cost to the software company. I think PDF files are a poor excuse for a real manual and one of the main reasons people go online to look for answers.

[stanlea]

Two days later, it makes sense : people will never change.

[Unaspected]

Does anyone else notice a trend among new producers wanting to be spoon fed information - particularly about Ableton? Its a lazy and unconstructive way to learn music production. I mean if you need an Ableton 10 course to tell you how to set up your DAW then your either an absolute beginner which is fine but if your not then you should probably pack it in. I mean the kids these days they expect just to be able to watch a series of youtube videos and then be able to produce. How do they ever learn from making mistakes and create their own unique way of working? This lazy, not wanting to read the manual or text books on the subject approach to learning is leading people to create generic music because you are just allowing someone else to define how they think you should work rather than defining that your self. The thought process should be "I want to achieve this sound, how can I adapt my work flow and use particular tools to achieve this and what do I need to learn in order to do so?" Then pick up the god damn manual or read a book! Im so sick of these lazy generic producers that don't understand how to learn for them selves. You think Andrew Weatherall or the Chemical Brothers had endless Youtube videos spoon feeding them exactly what to do back in the early 90's? They figured it out for them selves by making tons of mistakes, understanding the instruments and the processes behind the music, developing their critical listening skills and then defining their own way of working. The Kids of today man I tell you.

So I guess if someone came up to you and asked for directions you would tell them "buy a map"?

Hehe. I can imagine Patsy Stone doing something like that.

[martinjuenke]

...But then one day, they quietly started to be replaced with these crap PDF files...of course, the cost of software did not drop any with this obvious drop in cost to the software company.

The next stage is reached: companies start to scrap any pdf manual for a product and offer instead just an online help / doc function. Look iZotope for example. Annoying

[JJ_Jettflow]

...But then one day, they quietly started to be replaced with these crap PDF files...of course, the cost of software did not drop any with this obvious drop in cost to the software company.

The next stage is reached: companies start to scrap any pdf manual for a product and offer instead just an online help/doc function. Look iZotope for example. Annoying

Well, it all depends on what the manual is for too. I mean a simple synth or EQ plug I do not feel needs a 300-page manual, but for DAWs yes. and a well written one at that. I remember struggling with Sonar until I bought one of the books Scott R. Garrigus wrote and then it was a breeze.

But still, I do not understand the OP's problem with people looking for help online. Good God, go anywhere and people are looking for help online. They're looking for help with thier cars, help with cooking, help with toe fungus. help with relationships... it is the natural human way to do things; look for the answer the quickest way possible and the web is the biggest resource the world has and it is on your phone.

[harryupbabble]

Manuals are not like Google is probably why manuals don't get used as much.
For example, I typed "split midi items by bar" without the quotes in the Find thingy of the REAPER manual. I get no results.

But in Google, I type "reaper split midi items by bar" without the quotes and I find this article on page 1 of the Google result:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Reaper/comment ... e_an_item/

The solution according to that article is "Align the item to the grid, change the grid to whatever split amount you want, select the item, then run action 40932, "Split Items At Timeline Grid", shift it back to wherever it was."

So yeah, why would I bother with manuals when Google does the job sooooo much better and faster?

[BMoore]

Does anyone else notice a trend among new producers wanting to be spoon fed information - particularly about Ableton? Its a lazy and unconstructive way to learn music production. I mean if you need an Ableton 10 course to tell you how to set up your DAW then your either an absolute beginner which is fine but if your not then you should probably pack it in. I mean the kids these days they expect just to be able to watch a series of youtube videos and then be able to produce. How do they ever learn from making mistakes and create their own unique way of working? This lazy, not wanting to read the manual or text books on the subject approach to learning is leading people to create generic music because you are just allowing someone else to define how they think you should work rather than defining that your self. The thought process should be "I want to achieve this sound, how can I adapt my work flow and use particular tools to achieve this and what do I need to learn in order to do so?" Then pick up the god damn manual or read a book! Im so sick of these lazy generic producers that don't understand how to learn for them selves. You think Andrew Weatherall or the Chemical Brothers had endless Youtube videos spoon feeding them exactly what to do back in the early 90's? They figured it out for them selves by making tons of mistakes, understanding the instruments and the processes behind the music, developing their critical listening skills and then defining their own way of working. The Kids of today man I tell you.

So I guess if someone came up to you and asked for directions you would tell them "buy a map"?

The point is, they've already got maps. Tons. And Google, and Youtube, and product pages and what not. And they don't even try.

[BMoore]

Manuals are not like Google is probably why manuals don't get used as much.
For example, I typed "split midi items by bar" without the quotes in the Find thingy of the REAPER manual. I get no results.

But in Google, I type "reaper split midi items by bar" without the quotes and I find this article on page 1 of the Google result:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Reaper/comment ... e_an_item/

The solution according to that article is "Align the item to the grid, change the grid to whatever split amount you want, select the item, then run action 40932, "Split Items At Timeline Grid", shift it back to wherever it was."

So yeah, why would I bother with manuals when Google does the job sooooo much better and faster?

This is more "tips n tricks" than a specific entry in the manual.

And somebody knew how to do this, as you found, maybe by reading in the manual about split items, and then connecting the dots.

[JJ_Jettflow]

Does anyone else notice a trend among new producers wanting to be spoon fed information - particularly about Ableton? Its a lazy and unconstructive way to learn music production. I mean if you need an Ableton 10 course to tell you how to set up your DAW then your either an absolute beginner which is fine but if your not then you should probably pack it in. I mean the kids these days they expect just to be able to watch a series of youtube videos and then be able to produce. How do they ever learn from making mistakes and create their own unique way of working? This lazy, not wanting to read the manual or text books on the subject approach to learning is leading people to create generic music because you are just allowing someone else to define how they think you should work rather than defining that your self. The thought process should be "I want to achieve this sound, how can I adapt my work flow and use particular tools to achieve this and what do I need to learn in order to do so?" Then pick up the god damn manual or read a book! Im so sick of these lazy generic producers that don't understand how to learn for them selves. You think Andrew Weatherall or the Chemical Brothers had endless Youtube videos spoon feeding them exactly what to do back in the early 90's? They figured it out for them selves by making tons of mistakes, understanding the instruments and the processes behind the music, developing their critical listening skills and then defining their own way of working. The Kids of today man I tell you.

So I guess if someone came up to you and asked for directions you would tell them "buy a map"?

The point is, they've already got maps. Tons. And Google, and Youtube, and product pages and what not. And they don't even try.

And maybe they have tried those resources and still need further clarification? FWIW I find someone asking a question far less annoying than some windbag know-it-all posting page upon page of drivel just to point how right they are....as if anyone cares but them. There is nothing worse than doing a search for info on a plug and coming across a KVR page where one of the members of the KVR Philosopher's Club decided to punish some peon for daring to hold a different perspective than them... and ramp up the page count so you have to sift through dozens of pages to find anything useful.

[harryupbabble]

It's possible someone read the whole manual yes, and connected the dot.s It's also possible that that someone could be any of the REAPER developers themselves.

Plus, to me REAPER is not a DAW. I use it as a DMW or Digital MIDI Station. I don't want to read anything about A part of DAW at the moment.

There are probably manuals on how to understand and disassemble computers but I don't want to read that manual even though I use the computers.