Tone2 Gladiator 3 (public beta)

[Markus Krause]

There seems to be a lot of confusion and missinformation. That's why we will update the EULA with a more specific information especially for sound designers. Currently it targets competing synth companies which want to rip content from our synths. Sadly this has happened in the past and it was necessary to add a section in the EULA to protect our work.

If you are a musican:
- You do not have to care about anything at all

If you are a sound designer who builds soundsets for tone2 synths:
- You do not have to care about anything at all

If you want to use our synths for other purposes:
- Simply contact us by email. Quickly describe in what context you want to use them. You'll usually get our permission. It's as simply as that.

Best Regards,
Markus

[exmatproton]

There seems to be a lot of confusion and missinformation. That's why we will update the EULA with a more specific information especially for sound designers. Currently it targets competing synth companies which want to rip content from our synths. Sadly this has happened in the past and it was necessary to add a section in the EULA to protect our work.

If you are a musican:
- You do not have to care about anything at all

If you are a sound designer who builds soundsets for tone2 synths:
- You do not have to care about anything at all

If you want to use our synths for other purposes:
- Simply contact us by email. Quickly describe in what context you want to use them. You'll usually get our permission. It's as simply as that.

Best Regards,
Markus

Seems a perfectly and undestandable generic and fitting answer. I hope we can leave any further discussion about this to rest in this thread.

[fmr]

There seems to be a lot of confusion and missinformation. That's why we will update the EULA with a more specific information especially for sound designers. Currently it targets competing synth companies which want to rip content from our synths. Sadly this has happened in the past and it was necessary to add a section in the EULA to protect our work.

If you are a musican:
- You do not have to care about anything at all

If you are a sound designer who builds soundsets for tone2 synths:
- You do not have to care about anything at all

If you want to use our synths for other purposes:
- Simply contact us by email. Quickly describe in what context you want to use them. You'll usually get our permission. It's as simply as that.

Best Regards,
Markus

Still a bit restrictive, but I can live with a EULA like this.

[ENV1]

You know, whether or not you agree with Tone 2's policy (I don't) can you imagine if every hardware synth manufacturer said "You can't sample my product." Know where we'd be today? Well we sure as hell wouldn't be where we are now with some of the amazing products that we have available to us.

It goes way deeper than that because the problem is with the principle. Hence if this ever got a legal basis upon which stuff like this could be enforced it could potentially affect more or less everything and the world as we know it would cease to exist.

Imagine:

Our saws may only be used to cut wood from trees grown by our company or its contractors. If you want to use our saws for any other purpose, including but not limited to cutting wood from trees grown by another company, you shall contact us in advance and obtain permission. Special Clause: If you are, or working for, a competitor, you are not allowed to use our saws for purposes that further your own business unless you obtain a license. By using our saw you consent to these terms and conditions.

Our screwdrivers may only be used to drive screws manufactured by our company or its contractors. If you want to use our screwdrivers for any other purpose, including but not limited to driving screws manufactured by another company, you shall contact us in advance and obtain permission. Special Clause: If you are, or working for, a competitor, you are not allowed to use our screwdrivers for purposes that further your own business unless you obtain a license. By using our screwdriver you consent to these terms and conditions.

Our lightbulbs may only be installed in lamps manufactured by our company or its contractors. If you want to install our lightbulbs in lamps manufactured by another company you shall contact us in advance and obtain permission. Special Clause: If you are, or working for, a competitor, you are not allowed to use our lightbulbs to illuminate your facilities unless you obtain a license. By using our lightbulbs you consent to these terms and conditions.

Our printers may only be used with ink and paper manufactured by our company or its contractors. If you want to use our printers with ink and paper manufactured by another company you shall contact us in advance and obtain permission. Special Clause: If you are, or working for, a competitor, you are not allowed to use our printers to print material that promotes your company unless you obtain a license. By using our printer you consent to these terms and conditions.

Our cars may only be driven with gasoline produced by our company or its contractors. If you want to drive our cars with fuel produced by another company you shall contact us in advance and obtain permission. Special Clause: If you are, or working for, a competitor, you are not allowed to use our cars to drive to your place of work unless you obtain a license. By using our car you consent to these terms and conditions.

I think thats enough to convey the general idea and how ridiculous this is.

The world as we know it would spin totally out of control if stuff like that would become legally enforcable.


And just to dispel any doubt before it arises:

This is not about comparing softsynths with screwdrivers.

Its about the principle and the temerity of demands of such a kind.

[simmo75]

There seems to be a lot of confusion and missinformation. That's why we will update the EULA with a more specific information especially for sound designers. Currently it targets competing synth companies which want to rip content from our synths. Sadly this has happened in the past and it was necessary to add a section in the EULA to protect our work.

If you are a musican:
- You do not have to care about anything at all

If you are a sound designer who builds soundsets for tone2 synths:
- You do not have to care about anything at all

If you want to use our synths for other purposes:
- Simply contact us by email. Quickly describe in what context you want to use them. You'll usually get our permission. It's as simply as that.

Best Regards,
Markus

Thanks for clearing this up.
Totally reasonable.

[jsp1979]

I think thats enough to convey the general idea and how ridiculous this is.

The world as we know it would spin totally out of control if stuff like that would become legally enforcable.

This. So, no, the policy isn't reasonable, and even more ridiculously, it's unenforceable. So why have it?

[kiezum]

There seems to be a lot of confusion and missinformation.

If you want to use our synths for other purposes:
- Simply contact us by email. Quickly describe in what context you want to use them. You'll usually get our permission. It's as simply as that.

There's no confusion and misinformation. I just don't want to contact you everytime when I create a wavetable or sound in your synths and use it in a preset for another synth. Legal risks I don't want to take.

The question you didn't answer is: do you use audio watermarks in your plugins?

[Markus Krause]

Please note that we do not do support on kvr. You can find our company forum here:
http://www.tone2.org/forum/

If you have questions about security you can contact me in private by email. This is a public forum.

If you want to use our synths for other purposes feel free to contact us by email. You don't need to contact us everytime you create a wavetable. Quickly describe in what context you want to use them. You'll usually get our permission.

[Markus Krause]

Furthermore i will examine if i'll remove the abbility export the osciallators as wavs for Gladiator3 again. This thread has shown that there is a high demand on abusing it.

[wagtunes]

Furthermore i will examine if i'll remove the abbility export the osciallators as wavs for Gladiator3 again. This thread has shown that there is a high demand on abusing it.

That still won't stop people from sampling it and doing what they want with it.

Seriously, I don't see the problem with taking a sound that I create in Icarus, sampling it, mangling it with 37 different FX, bringing the results of that into a granular synth, mangling it some more and taking that result and selling it as a library sound for that granular synth.

To do that I actually have to write to you and ask your permission?

Seriously?

You couldn't in a million years tell the sound initially came from Icarus.

This whole scenario boggles my mind.

[Markus Krause]

Hello Wagtunes,

this thread is about Gladiator3 and not about Icarus or copyright ethics.

The whole discussion is completely exaggerated. The issue is a non-issue since in practise it currently affects noone, except one person from 'another company'.

Fact is that several other big companies have ripped sounds from our synths in the past and sold it as 'their own' content. That's why we must protect ourselves against copyright infringement.

We usually do not care if a hobby-sounddesigner hurts the EULA and uses our tools to create content without our permission . We never did or will sue anyone because of that. However we recommend to get a permission. Tell us in what context you want to use it. Usually you will get our permission. It is just sending an email. It is as simple as that.

However we care if a big, competing company, which makes $xxxxxxx per year uses our know-how and intelectual efforts to create factory content for a competing synthesizer.

We will update the EULA with a more specific information especially for sound designers.

Please let me get back to work on the free udpdate to Gladiator3.

If you are a musican:
- You do not have to care about anything at all

If you are a sound designer who builds soundsets for tone2 synths:
- You do not have to care about anything at all

If you want to use our synths for other purposes:
- Simply contact us by email. Quickly describe in what context you want to use them. You'll usually get our permission. It's as simply as that.

Best Regards,
Markus

[izonin]

Nonsense and utter rubbish. Only shows how ridiculous some EULA's are... Simply ignore them.

[JoeCat]

24 pages and I'm still confused: I read urs' original request as intent to use the wavetable editor in Icarus, and to recommend it as a tool for others (which would be a "lift all boats in the virtual synth" world thang, so to speak). Not to export and use the wavetables already created in Icarus, though that would be possible for a user in any case.

That wouldn't be the same as exporting Icarus wavetabes to package and sell in another instrument. Unless I'm too addled from trying to work and simultaneously binge season 3 of Rick and Morty again (needs 2-3 viewings at least). wubba lubba dub dub...

[ENV1]

Furthermore i will examine if i'll remove the abbility export the osciallators as wavs for Gladiator3 again. This thread has shown that there is a high demand on abusing it.

Demand from whom?

And abusing it to do what?

Unless memory fails me, the only person to indicate possible interest in using Gladiators WAV export for the purpose of creating new material for other synths was Urs Heckmann, and even he specifically asked whether thats alrighty or if there are any strings attached.

The fact that some people criticize certain things you put in your terms and conditions is a totally different matter and not to be taken as indicative of their desire to use your synth for any purpose.

[PietW.]

The statement of Markus was more than clear. What is not there to understand or post you just want to provoke further?