Separating My Producing And Mixing Process

[Zexila]

1a: CPU/resources mostly
1b: not much, I'm always trying to commit to as less as I can, no panning and friendly levels
2a: I barely do it, sources don't use too much resources and I'm always going back to fix some velocities and timings
2b: Only kick would be mono, everything else depends on context.

[jancivil]

The following tracking/mixing questions are directed to anyone who wishes to contribute their own personal insight:

[1a] When committing individual Midi-based tracks to audio (whether it be bouncing a virtual instrument's output to audio or recording the audio output from a midi-controlled hardware synth), what influences your decision to commit an individual Midi-based track to a single stereo audio track; to a single mono audio track; or to multiple mono channel audio tracks?

First, CPU. I make a lot of things based in Absynth, my own designs, which are the absolute worst hogs of CPU on the planet. Even when I had the big machine, I would have to manage where playback begins or have to wait for things to decay, which was untenable for very long. But I want to commit to this, and know where the thing is going, laying out a sort of story line before I do very much with the orchestration.

2) . With things lately what I do is render the instrument's channel and the master out (this is in VE Pro, so its master out, where the reverb resides... also I have the delay channel output thru the master) as two stereo files. So, the majority of the time I will have a look at this in project and render the combination of that in mix as a single 2-file.

3) I like time-stretching and other things offline committed to a region in an audio file, although things like a send to a chorus or delay is another matter completely. But I can determine the tone of an audio result in ways that an insert on the instrument's channel don't really provide me.

[1b] How does this impact your panning and level decisions for mixing that audio (which originated from a Midi-based track)?

It doesn't, much. I do detailed determinations from the very outset as to where instruments are placed in the stereo field. Now, as to mono, I do several mono outs from BFD3 as well as several stereo outs. All *drums* are mono outs. The stereo are for cymbals, in order to send to the master out so the overheads, in effect reflect some in the same space as everything else. The mono are dry (as far as that, in fact they send to room and ambient mics in BFD3).

Sometimes after the initial determination I may change my mind on some things. But once rendered, I don't do much and that amounts to trimming the edges.
The different thing I do here, however is I use Reaktor Skanner (and others) in the Cubendo project rather than in VE Pro as I like to write automation interacting via mouse (or trackpad), extensive control like this. And the basic spatial aspect here is in instrument. As well as reverb/echo. Albeit I may use power panning to even move the image around, as well as the trim the extremes, particularly when I want to get out of the way of stuff in those extremes/at the edges.

[2a] Similar to the last question, when committing the output from a Midi-based drumkit (a virtual instrument or a drum machine) to audio, what influences your decision to commit to a single stereo mixdown of all drum channels; to individual stereo or mono audio tracks; or to multiple mono channel audio tracks?

[2b] If committing to a combination of individual stereo and mono tracks, which drum parts do you render to mono (e.g. kick and snare); and which ones to stereo (e.g. toms)? Also, how do you prefer to pan/balance any individual mono or stereo drum parts?

I always mixdown a single stereo file for drums*. I use one MIDI track for it. There is no reason not to; I use BFD3 for all separation and VE Pro (via host automation in Cubendo) as the mixer.
(*: actually, except when I never render the drums separately. Due to resources constraints I finalize drums last usually and sometimes the MIDI is still connected when I render the final 2-file).
(also I might add that I consider drums as a performance and I've always done it in a single MIDI track)

I have in the past exported audio from BFD2 and did things much as I mentioned above with regions and offline processing, or I dealt with it as 'pre-mastering'. And for a brief period I used multiband compression; in fact one of my favorite drums result in a mix was a product of this. It's not the easiest way to work in the world and I'm lazier now.

Again, drums are output as mono (or they're not aux-outputted at all, which means there's not a lot happening for a particular loaded drum). I use a power panner for very nearly everything, in VE Pro, whether it's the basic one it provides or Vienna Suite Power Panner. So while there is a bit of a wash for cymbals in BFD3 via its interface, the stereo outs have power panning applied so that the reflection when those channels hit the convolution reverb is more defined. SO: there is an ambient aux channel in BFD3; this is nearly all that's going out thru the channel "BFD3" so this is a particular kind of cymbals overhead channel primarily. It's kind of an odd thing to do, but I want the best of both worlds, and I definitely want the cymbals agreeing with other cymbals and metallic percussion in the mix, in terms of the 'height' of the mix. The instrument channel is *very* low in gain except in certain situations.

The reverb I always use is Hybrid Reverb in Vienna Suite (the hybrid aspect is it crossfades an algo tail onto the convolution early reflections and body). It provides quite a lot of control. One of the things I tend to exploit is the "L/R crossfade" control, which at 100% is fully diffuse, at 0% is as narrow a reflection as can be. So when a narrow-field channel is sent to it at low % its reflections 'matter' more. I'm a weirdo when it comes to things like this, I automate the reverb mix quite a lot usually.

[rod_zero]

For me it is very simple: when you mix as you go you can easily lose focus on the arrangement.

So I finish the composition first, I can program a couple of sounds and choose between other presets but I don't get deep into it. After finishing the arrangement I see if I can program a new o replace a preset for something I don't like that much. Then print to audio. Only then start adding eq, compressors, etc.

The only effect I use while arrenging is delay because the repetition can be quite part of the "music".

[benheman]

Interesting!

[tonedef71]

Thank you for your feedback. I have some follow-up questions for you.

1a: CPU/resources mostly

Under what specific circumstances might you decide to render your MIDI in each of the following ways?: [a] to a single stereo audio track; to a single mono audio track; [c] to multiple mono channel audio tracks

2a: I barely do it, sources don't use too much resources and I'm always going back to fix some velocities and timings

So you rarely render your Midi drums to audio prior to the final mixdown. Are your Midi drums multi-tracked; all drum parts on a single channel or track; or some other scenario (please elaborate)? If multi-tracked, does each drum part or channel get its own track, or are certain drum parts/channels all together in a single midi track (e.g. open and closed hats; all toms; etc.).

2b: Only kick would be mono, everything else depends on context.

What are some examples of situations in which you might want to record a drum part (other than the kick drum) as mono?

Also, when you decide to render a Midi source as a mono audio track, do you prefer to pan/balance the stereo field to hard center and then collapse it down to mono, or do you prefer to just isolate one channel (left or right) of the stereo output and discard the other channel?

[tonedef71]

...

Thank you for your detailed responses... lots of good insight shared here. You are clearly light years ahead of me in terms of technique and style; hopefully I will reach your level of sophistication at some point as I gain more experience in music production.

Should anyone be curious as to why I would mention multi-tracked Midi drums... that came about as a result of using the Tracktion/Waveform DAW: it was necessary to split a single Midi drum source track out into separate Midi tracks (of individual drum parts or of grouped drum parts) in order to be able to render out the drumkit as multiple audio stems. Studio One however does not impose such requirements on me.

[tonedef71]

For me it is very simple: when you mix as you go you can easily lose focus on the arrangement.

So I finish the composition first, I can program a couple of sounds and choose between other presets but I don't get deep into it. After finishing the arrangement I see if I can program a new o replace a preset for something I don't like that much. Then print to audio. Only then start adding eq, compressors, etc.

The only effect I use while arranging is delay because the repetition can be quite part of the "music".

Thank you for sharing your workflow. I do find myself wavering back and forth between wanting to compose a song completely, without too much regard to arrangement and mixing; or accepting on-the-fly mixing/arranging as an integral part of my song writing workflow. I probably need to become fluent with both of those song creation styles.

[Zexila]

Thank you for your feedback. I have some follow-up questions for you.

Under what specific circumstances might you decide to render your MIDI in each of the following ways?: [a] to a single stereo audio track; to a single mono audio track; [c] to multiple mono channel audio tracks

A. by default, B. if material is mono and C. if I'm going to do some layering

So you rarely render your Midi drums to audio prior to the final mixdown. Are your Midi drums multi-tracked; all drum parts on a single channel or track; or some other scenario (please elaborate)? If multi-tracked, does each drum part or channel get its own track, or are certain drum parts/channels all together in a single midi track (e.g. open and closed hats; all toms; etc.).

I do electronic synthetic music, maybe some acoustic sample find his way in, but that's about it.

What are some examples of situations in which you might want to record a drum part (other than the kick drum) as mono?

Some stereo manipulation and layering.

Also, when you decide to render a Midi source as a mono audio track, do you prefer to pan/balance the stereo field to hard center and then collapse it down to mono, or do you prefer to just isolate one channel (left or right) of the stereo output and discard the other channel?

[/quote]

Hard center, because i mostly make mono sounds mono anyways from the get go, maybe in some rare case I would do the opposite, some layering and whatnot.

[Unaspected]

[1a] When committing individual Midi-based tracks to audio (whether it be bouncing a virtual instrument's output to audio or recording the audio output from a midi-controlled hardware synth), what influences your decision to commit an individual Midi-based track to a single stereo audio track; to a single mono audio track; or to multiple mono channel audio tracks?

If the signal has stereo processing or not. Everything gets bounced to audio before mixing.

[1b] How does this impact your panning and level decisions for mixing that audio (which originated from a Midi-based track)?

Usually I'll start a mix with everything centred. If a panning effect is part of a sound and it works then I'll keep it but I'd rather add that kind of effect in the mix.

[2a] Similar to the last question, when committing the output from a Midi-based drumkit (a virtual instrument or a drum machine) to audio, what influences your decision to commit to a single stereo mixdown of all drum channels; to individual stereo or mono audio tracks; or to multiple mono channel audio tracks?

I never do this. All drums are bounced as individual channels and mixed to group busses and sub-mixes during the mixing stage.

[2b] If committing to a combination of individual stereo and mono tracks, which drum parts do you render to mono (e.g. kick and snare); and which ones to stereo (e.g. toms)? Also, how do you prefer to pan/balance any individual mono or stereo drum parts?

Same as 1a - if the sound has stereo processing then it requires a stereo file.

I pan by ear, depending on what sounds best if working with an electronic kit. For my tastes this usually involves using different stereo widths rather than straight panning - unless that width can be achieved due to complementary parts. Otherwise, I use the room overheads to guide where everything should be positioned.

[tonedef71]

...

Thank you for the follow up responses.

With the exception of pre-recorded audio clips (that probably originated from monaural microphone recordings), all of my Midi source audio outputs in stereo. I guess I would need to analyze the output from each stereo track to see whether or not the individual left and right channels were identical (or practically identical) in order to target candidates which should/could be rendered down to monophonic audio stems. Whether or not I am just overly complicating the mixing process for myself by carefully initializing my audio mix session project to consist of only monophonic audio stems is another topic worthy of debate.

[Zexila]

Whether or not I am just overly complicating the mixing process for myself by carefully initializing my audio mix session project to consist of only monophonic audio stems is another topic worthy of debate.

You are doing it for your own piece of mind, that stuff keeps you sleeping and happy with your work, nothing wrong with it.

[tonedef71]

...

Thank you for sharing how you approach those matters, and why you do it that way. The insight you have provided helps me to re-evaluate and refine my own music production workflow.

[tonedef71]

You are doing it for your own piece of mind, that stuff keeps you sleeping and happy with your work, nothing wrong with it.

Except perhaps when all of that meticulous preparation of mine limits my sleeping time.

[Zexila]

You are doing it for your own piece of mind, that stuff keeps you sleeping and happy with your work, nothing wrong with it.

Except perhaps when all of that meticulous preparation of mine limits my sleeping time.

Sleeping is overrated.

[tonedef71]

You are doing it for your own piece of mind, that stuff keeps you sleeping and happy with your work, nothing wrong with it.

Except perhaps when all of that meticulous preparation of mine limits my sleeping time.

Sleeping is overrated.

That tends to be my attitude.