why is it hard to write good music?

[AdvancedFollower]

Inspiration is essential.

Inspiration disappears. Motivation fades. Dedication's what you need

I think discipline trumps everything else. It's easy to think "I'm not feeling motivated today" or "I'm not talented enough" but if you keep trying and don't give up you'll eventually achieve something.

[Mike777]

Inspiration is essential.

Inspiration disappears. Motivation fades. Dedication's what you need

I think discipline trumps everything else. It's easy to think "I'm not feeling motivated today" or "I'm not talented enough" but if you keep trying and don't give up you'll eventually achieve something.

That's true but I think you need a talent and some guidance when becoming dedicated to music long term. Without talent, you hit a plateau quickly and that's it no matter how much harder you try.

And there are multitudes of songwriters & musicians who spend decades dedicated to their craft, and still hit a plateau, and that's it for them.

However labels turn non talent into pop stars with tech and marketing formula. A lot of pop artists today can't sing or write songs, but they are in the music 'biz' making $. That's the sad state of a lot of today's pop music. Fake music.

Record labels learned a long time ago they don't have to write 'good' music anymore. In fact what I call 'bad' music they sell tons of. if it's catchy it will sell. I don't think Aqua's "Barbie Girl" is 'good' music. But hey, 517 million youtube hits. Why? Because it's catchy/cheesy/sexy.

So try this sometimes, write a 'bad' song on purpose. See what happens.

[do_androids_dream]

Today we have almost every music instrument and recording tool available, and while I hear a lot of great music productions being posted, it's too often the music composition is just so-so.

That's entirely a matter of opinion.. There's no such thing as good and bad music - just music you don't like and music you do..

[jancivil]

It's ironic that you state that opinion as though it's a fact.

[Mike777]

Today we have almost every music instrument and recording tool available, and while I hear a lot of great music productions being posted, it's too often the music composition is just so-so.

That's entirely a matter of opinion.. There's no such thing as good and bad music - just music you don't like and music you do..

there really is bad music, I've heard it with my own ears. Almost every great band has written some bad music. And commercial labels keep making it.

On May 5, 2017 Warner Music record label released the song "How It Is (Wap Bap …)" by Bibi from Germany. Guess what. A bad song. If anyone likes this song, I've posted the catchy chorus. Let's all sing along:

Wap bap wah da de da dah
Dap bap bah da de da dah
Dap bap bah da de da dah dah!
And everybody sing...
Wap bap wah da de da dah
Dap bap wah da de da dah
Dap bap Bah da de da dah dah!

[ghettosynth]

Today we have almost every music instrument and recording tool available, and while I hear a lot of great music productions being posted, it's too often the music composition is just so-so.

That's entirely a matter of opinion.. There's no such thing as good and bad music - just music you don't like and music you do..

there really is bad music, I've heard it with my own ears. Almost every great band has written some bad music. And commercial labels keep making it.

On May 5, 2017 Warner Music record label released the song "How It Is (Wap Bap …)" by Bibi from Germany. Guess what. A bad song. If anyone likes this song, I've posted the catchy chorus. Let's all sing along:

Wap bap wah da de da dah
Dap bap bah da de da dah
Dap bap bah da de da dah dah!
And everybody sing...
Wap bap wah da de da dah
Dap bap wah da de da dah
Dap bap Bah da de da dah dah!

So it's bad because a lot of people don't like it?

Here's the track for those who care:



And a discussion to jumpstart this one:

https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/c ... n_youtube/

[Hooj]

Talent is part of the equation. The other is just effort.
Do a YouTube search for how to construct a melody -- you'll find the "info" on writing melodies will be fluff with no serious technical points pretty much at all...you have to get a good book on music theory for that, where such information is covered in depth. But people don't want to read, because...effort. Cat videos are far easier to consume than music theory, and watching videos is easier than practicing.

^^^ THAT!

I'll add that reading a book would be a good start but most people will also probably need some assistance along the way, which is why music education programs exist. But, as you alluded to already, most aren't willing to invest the $$$, effort or time it takes.... they believe that some people are somehow "born" with the ability to compose music.

[Mike777]

So it's bad because a lot of people don't like it?

No, it's bad because the music in this version is presented in a musically childish way but the song is meant for adults. I know children's songs that are much better. And yes I judge any type of art with "bad", "fair", "good", "excellent", "masterpiece", etc.

I don't think it's the worst song of all time, but some think it is. Someone did however make a really nice electronic cover, but they changed it into a whole new style and changed the chorus and a lot of other changes.

[Mike777]

Talent is part of the equation. The other is just effort.
Do a YouTube search for how to construct a melody -- you'll find the "info" on writing melodies will be fluff with no serious technical points pretty much at all...you have to get a good book on music theory for that, where such information is covered in depth. But people don't want to read, because...effort. Cat videos are far easier to consume than music theory, and watching videos is easier than practicing.

^^^ THAT!

I'll add that reading a book would be a good start but most people will also probably need some assistance along the way, which is why music education programs exist. But, as you alluded to already, most aren't willing to invest the $$$, effort or time it takes.... they believe that some people are somehow "born" with the ability to compose music.

yes and while learning from books, also study some actual scores of great composers would be immensely helpful. Of course some will ask, "what's a score?"

Tomorrow I'm going to post what I consider very good music. Two pieces, one just a melody with some two part harmony. Another a modern orchestra work

[Karma_tba]

I think it's hard to write good music because every note, chord change, even melody has been used before. When you think you've come up with something new..it's probably something you unconsciously assimilated. You probably don't mean to plagiarize, but it hard not to. Just check out all the recent court cases against current music. In some instances it considered OK take 12 bar blues. Or riffs like the Amen riff. I'm sure all this is debatable.

[ShawnG]

To be honest, any output of mine that I have put in the "good" category has always been incredibly easy. Good songs kind of seem to write themselves once you are in the right mindset. The other 99 percent of the time, when I'm writing terrible crap, that's work.

My musical life has had 2 halves. When I was younger, I was a singer/songwriter/guitarist in a series of bands. Whereas now, I am a middle aged solo producer hobbyist. I can occasionally put all the pieces together myself these days, and that is rewarding, but nothing matched the quality and quantity of output when working with bandmates. You could push each other, and come up with stuff that you wouldnt otherwise, even the "non writing" band members would put their own spin on their parts, and we had the pressure of having to go out and play new stuff live to an audience with wildly varying levels of interest/apathy/hostility. My little regret is that we never did much recording then, and some great moments are lost to the air of the rehearsal garage or the clubs we played, but now that I have all the tools, I dont have as much to record on them.

Collaboration is very under appreciated in my opinion.

[anomandaris1]

In some instances it considered OK take 12 bar blues.

Good luck trying to claim that you somehow discovered original chord progression in 12ET using triads or tetrads.

About originality - you can compose totally original music with copy-pasting and fitting together "stolen" fragments out of previosly created compositions. It's up to you to develop the material.

It is funny how repetitive and formulaic is pop music, I agree; it can be hard to compose very original great music in such narrow format - 4/4, major/natural minor, 120 bpm, piano/guitar/supersaw synths.

[jancivil]

If there is no objectively good or bad music, then any and all of JS Bach, or Stravinsky, or... et al has to be considered on the same footing as some track made strictly for money by no-ability-having people who only grabbed some loop off of the internet or Apple Loops or what-have-you in order to 'rap' some prurient garbage over it and knocked a shite export of it out. There is some unbelievably poor music in this world. There is music that is transcendent. And there are people that have no tools for discernment whatsoever so they _like_ utter garbage.
The tone deaf person with no sense of rhythm is just as good a judge of music as anyone, then.

It's a completely vacuous notion, that there is just what you like and don't like. Already answered, there are people whose 'like' factor has evolved with better information and a larger sample base of music to consider.

When I see that I think, 'what a great excuse for avoiding living up to any kind of standard'.

[ghettosynth]

So it's bad because a lot of people don't like it?

No, it's bad because the music in this version is presented in a musically childish way but the song is meant for adults. I know children's songs that are much better.

First, it's not clear to me that it's "meant for adults", her audience is largely young girls AFAIK, no? I mean, this thread is the first that I've heard of her so I'm taking that from the one or two threads that I've read and the wikipedia page about this song.

Second, what does that even mean? Do you mean the production, the melody? Would a Rammstein cover also be "bad music."

What I'm pushing for here is for those that disagree with the premise that there is objectively bad music to actually define what that means. I'll tell you, I don't think that you can.

I think that there are multiple parts to any such definition. We should be able to talk about the music itself, the lyric content, if it exists, and the production choices. Of course, only the first is really about "bad music."

And yes I judge any type of art with "bad", "fair", "good", "excellent", "masterpiece", etc.

Sure, I think that everyone expresses their OPINION that way, I certainly do. I'm just not in denial that it's just my opinion. I also think that it's fair to criticize a production with respect to it not meeting the norms and expectations of a particular genre or market. For example this isn't a particularly good example of adult contemporary, and frankly, it's among the worst metal tracks that I've ever heard. Those statements are much easier to support with reasonably objective observations about what is expected in a genre.

[stratum]

Applicable senses of "objective" (from http://www.dictionary.com/browse/objective)

5.not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased:
an objective opinion.
6.intent upon or dealing with things external to the mind rather than with thoughts or feelings, as a person or a book.

Applicable senses of "music" (from http://www.dictionary.com/browse/music)

1.an art of sound in time that expresses ideas and emotions in significant forms through the elements of rhythm, melody, harmony, and color.
2.the tones or sounds employed, occurring in single line (melody) or multiple lines (harmony), and sounded or to be sounded by one or more voices or instruments, or both.
3.. (there are a few more entries)

The first(1) definition of "music" appears to be incompatible with anything that can be called "objective" (because of the word "emotions"), although the phrase "significant forms" imply that there are musical forms that may be considered to be more scholarly work than others.