The Waves Update Plan scam

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
simon.a.billington
KVRian
1412 posts since 12 Nov, 2014

Post Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:56 am

jens wrote:What do you mean? Waves support 64bit since V9.0 which came out in 2012...
Pretty sure 64-bit was in the 9.6 update, I could be getting my wires crossed though.

Although there is a bit of ambiguity between 64-bit operating systems and 64-bit DAWS. I realise I was referring to the latter which possibly makes part of my earlier comments incorrect as I may have been confusing the difference myself.

simon.a.billington
KVRian
1412 posts since 12 Nov, 2014

Re: The Waves Update Plan scam

Post Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:04 am

krabbencutter wrote:
codec_spurt wrote:[...]
Waves are losing the few customers they have left.
[...]
you mean like the whole music industry? :hihi: Like it or not, but Waves are an industry standard (read: widely adopted, not: the best) just as Pro Tools is and they won't be going anywhere soon.
Agreed. Waves is still growing strong, with new products hitting the shelf several times a year.

Well hey, what if they just turned around and started doing whatever one else does, sit on a whole heap of bug fixes and release them in a new plugin with a couple of features and charge everyone an upgrade fee for it. Let's say $50

Hmmm $50 x every Waves plugin!?!!!!

As you can see, they could be making so, so, so much more if they did what all the other devs do. Instead, they do those bug fixes for FREE and every so often ask users pay a token fee so they can keep affording to fix these things.

But if you rather pay $50 a plugin, drop Waves a message and let them know. I'm sure they could accomodate you.
Last edited by simon.a.billington on Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jens
KVRAF
18848 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Re: The Waves Update Plan scam

Post Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:13 am

simon.a.billington wrote:
jens wrote:What do you mean? Waves support 64bit since V9.0 which came out in 2012...
Pretty sure 64-bit was in the 9.6 update, I could be getting my wires crossed though.

Although there is a bit of ambiguity between 64-bit operating systems and 64-bit DAWS. I realise I was referring to the latter which possibly makes part of my earlier comments incorrect as I may have been confusing the difference myself.
https://www.waves.com/waves-version-9

https://www.kvraudio.com/news/waves-aud ... ilok-18492


B.t.w.: these are plugins, so what would support for 64bit OSes refer to? The installer? Any 32bit application should normally run on Win64 bit and I think most installers are still 32bit anyway.
" It is a measurable fact. Not my opinion. And not even subtle. If you can't hear difference in tail between Valhalla and VSR reverb tail then again change your job dude." kmonkey

imrae
KVRist
442 posts since 2 Jul, 2010

Re: The Waves Update Plan scam

Post Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:36 am

simon.a.billington wrote: Well hey, what if they just turned around and started doing whatever one else does, sit on a whole heap of bug fixes and release them in a new plugin with a couple of features and charge everyone an upgrade fee for it. Let's say $50
Did you miss the Loom 2 fiasco? It's pretty clear that users here do not actually think this is ok.

Tearing Riots
KVRian
772 posts since 18 Oct, 2014

Re: The Waves Update Plan scam

Post Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:49 am

And if a company goes belly up or sells out to apple the users won't be happy either.

Btw. I now have updated the plugins still covered, two are still v9. It seems not possible to remove the v9 versions of just the ones updated. Or am I missing something?

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Mathematics
KVRist
275 posts since 10 Sep, 2015 from You haven't unlocked this character yet

Re: The Waves Update Plan scam

Post Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:04 pm

Tearing Riots wrote:Btw. I now have updated the plugins still covered, two are still v9. It seems not possible to remove the v9 versions of just the ones updated. Or am I missing something?
Actually, Waves central seems to do some house-cleaning with the .dll files. Waves plugins use a shell to direct the DAW to the available plugins. Are you referring to remnant files that were not updated? If so, depending if you're using PC or Mac, there is a Waves path that contains the actual source plugins that the .dll file points to. You can just go into the Waves plugin folder and delete those files. I was told this by Waves for a different issue.

Regardless, are you having some kind of issue that is causing you to want to remove erroneous files?
...and the electron responded, "what wall?"

Tearing Riots
KVRian
772 posts since 18 Oct, 2014

Re: The Waves Update Plan scam

Post Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:52 am

Thanks, seems that it was a issue specific to bitwig, showing both versions but waves did indeed load the newer one for both. Removing them from the v9 folder worked, had to delete bitwig's plugin metadata files as well forcing it to re-index the waveshells.

As for why, just the usual clutter annoyance

simon.a.billington
KVRian
1412 posts since 12 Nov, 2014

Re: The Waves Update Plan scam

Post Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:16 pm

imrae wrote:
simon.a.billington wrote: Well hey, what if they just turned around and started doing whatever one else does, sit on a whole heap of bug fixes and release them in a new plugin with a couple of features and charge everyone an upgrade fee for it. Let's say $50
Did you miss the Loom 2 fiasco? It's pretty clear that users here do not actually think this is ok.
Apparently I did!! Haha!!

What's the goss?? What happened??

imrae
KVRist
442 posts since 2 Jul, 2010

Re: The Waves Update Plan scam

Post Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:41 am

Thread here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=492663

Highlights: AIR released Loom 2 as a "time-limited" $50 upgrade for Loom users. (More than most people paid for Loom.) The new features were pretty underwhelming, including a "much-requested" polyphony increase from 6 voices - to 8 voices! Meanwhile major GUI/usability issues seem to have been overlooked.

The ensuing discussion didn't go very well for AIR.

User avatar
MadDogE134
KVRist
130 posts since 26 Nov, 2007

Re: The Waves Update Plan scam

Post Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:57 am

well i hate wup... it was absurd from the start but then again in their hay day they had BIG studios buying that readily paid say $500 for a bloody plugin 'cos they had it to blow then had the money to blow on keeping their product current because they had to for clients. they could not afford to let them lapse and waves were overpaid for a long time. most of their plugs are like two decades old now and have not seen any change except for compatibility updates due to advancing operating systems. they haven't even bothered to update GUIs over the years and a lot of their plugs are hard to read due to small text and graphics.

now present day... they don't have as many BIG companies to rely on and they want to keep their profit margin so they devised a plan to keep the money rolling in and doing little to nothing for the profit. when a lot of recording studios starting going under and they were losing money on the big ticket pricing they went after the little guy hence all the $29 plugs that used to sell in the hundreds. they do have some decent plugins so people jump all over the $29 deals tying themselves into the wup plan so waves is guaranteed at least some free money from the little guy. i won't say it is a scam nor unethical... companies are in business to make money... but it IS underhanded and they ARE raping people that want to stay current... especially those using apple computers and they know it. that is why they never respond to the constant bitching.

but this is how i look at it... i got some damn good plugs for dirt cheap but i will not pay 2-3x what i bought it for for a possible compatibility update (luckily i use a PC) since they haven't really touched many plugins for almost 20 yrs so i refuse to pay wup at all and when the time comes they don't work for me anymore they are gonna hit the trash bin. i can't bitch about the loss of $29 for years of usage. when they are gone they are gone and like was said folks... no one forced me to buy the product and no one is forcing me to update the wup so i prefer to see it as a win win for me. i may have to replace them at some point in time but there are equivalent or better plugs on the market so i am not sweating it. that is all down the road... but i do feel for those that go in ignorantly or have plugs stop working every time they update their OS. but since they have moved up to v10 i will no longer buy anymore from waves. (i own pretty much all of their stuff now lol) i am not about to pay them $225 to update them all and get nothing for it. like i said... they will all go in the trash and as long as folk keep buying the $29 plugs waves has no reason to change. the only way they will change is if everyone ceases to buy from them completely. cheers

MogwaiBoy
KVRAF
2777 posts since 26 Nov, 2015 from Way Downunder

Re: The Waves Update Plan scam

Post Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:34 pm

Waves could have easily accommodated V9 and V10 in the same Waves Central platform, since Waves Central itself doesn't contain the plugins but instead pings Waves' servers for download.

I think the "yes you can have V9 and V10 at the same time - it's not easy but it can be done" was rather deliberate. Masses of casual users would have freaked out at their V9's not showing up in their accounts and WUP'd to "get them back" on the list.

Psywarfare :D

nusound mind
KVRist
105 posts since 21 Jan, 2017

Re: The Waves Update Plan scam

Post Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:28 pm

I'm with MadDog basically. Bought Gold & a bunch of 29 dollar plugs, upgraded the Renaissance bundle, etc. lot of decent plugs, not too many if any necessarily irreplaceable though; but this v10 fiasco I won't bother to update my wup for free w/ Gold to get the new couple plugs added to Gold nor buy fr. waves again b/c of the apparent headache w/ the v9 v10 installation.

Once they stop working, I'll stop using them. I'm not emotionally invested in this decision, just not worth the trouble plus it's shady business practice at least in part.

Waves are great stability wise though and some of their older plugins are great for the negligible cpu hit.

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ericzang
KVRist
392 posts since 7 May, 2002 from Phoenix, Arizona, USA

Re: The Waves Update Plan scam

Post Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:10 pm

This is a long thread which I haven't been following, so please excuse if this has been answered. Is this correct?:

I have only v9 plugins. If I were to buy a different plugin today (v10), I would need to get the v10 Waves Central. Installing that would "break" my v9 plugins? But there is a work around to have both Waves Centrals active so I can still use my v9s?

I'm on Win 7. Thanks.
www.ericzang.com
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LeVzi
KVRAF
1847 posts since 8 Jul, 2008 from Cardiff, Wales, UK

Re: The Waves Update Plan scam

Post Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:38 pm

The solution is quite simple for my original issue,

To renew a WUP for a plugin that is one less version that the current, ie from V9 to V 10 $10 a plugin, bundles capped at % of value

V8 to V10 $20 a plugin

etc

etc

Flat rate for Version updates not from the date it was purchased.
Forward ever, Backward never

simon.a.billington
KVRian
1412 posts since 12 Nov, 2014

Re: The Waves Update Plan scam

Post Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:51 am

imrae wrote:Thread here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=492663

Highlights: AIR released Loom 2 as a "time-limited" $50 upgrade for Loom users. (More than most people paid for Loom.) The new features were pretty underwhelming, including a "much-requested" polyphony increase from 6 voices - to 8 voices! Meanwhile major GUI/usability issues seem to have been overlooked.

The ensuing discussion didn't go very well for AIR.
Oh wow. Sounds like it was a bad move on their part. Probably spent a long time trying to love it down too.

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