Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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jancivil
KVRAF
16112 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Post Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:59 am

I hate string machines. :o

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fisherKing
KVRAF
1726 posts since 6 Aug, 2009

Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Post Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:06 am

jancivil wrote:I hate string machines. :o
then the vocaloid-&-string machine song i made for you may not make you happy....
always one plugin short of perfection...

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jancivil
KVRAF
16112 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Post Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:09 am

:love:

8)

DrMEM
KVRist
143 posts since 6 Aug, 2017

Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Post Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:27 am

I don't understand why we don't have a proper sample based vocal library yet. There are only 44 phonemes (vocal articulations, essentially) in the English language. I must be missing something, because I figure all you'd have to do is record each of those phonemes across say a 4 octave range and allow for midi cc or keyswitching between them (figuring out a good midi map would probably be the hardest part). That's 2112 samples for 1x rr.

Then maybe you'd want 4 dynamic layers, something like soft, normal, emotional, and gritty, and of course you'd want rr too. That puts you at 33792 samples for 4x rr at each of the four dynamic layers.

What am I missing here?

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martinjuenke
KVRAF
2525 posts since 28 Dec, 2015 from Germany

Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Post Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:36 am

Aloysius wrote:They seem to have a bartering system in place:

Vocaloid5 Standard, Upgrade Edition 15,000 hen.
Vocaloid5 Premium, Upgrade Edition 24,000 hen.

That's a lot of hens.
How much is this in Camels?
Alternatively Bavarian Cows?

Flowing atmospheric music
http://www.sonoryth.bandcamp.com/music

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wagtunes
KVRAF
13977 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Post Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:38 am

DrMEM wrote:I don't understand why we don't have a proper sample based vocal library yet. There are only 44 phonemes (vocal articulations, essentially) in the English language. I must be missing something, because I figure all you'd have to do is record each of those phonemes across say a 4 octave range and allow for midi cc or keyswitching between them (figuring out a good midi map would probably be the hardest part). That's 2112 samples for 1x rr.

Then maybe you'd want 4 dynamic layers, something like soft, normal, emotional, and gritty, and of course you'd want rr too. That puts you at 33792 samples for 4x rr at each of the four dynamic layers.

What am I missing here?
A lot. The nuances of the human voice are...well, let's just say it is the most complex instrument on the planet. If it were as simple as you say, somebody would have done it by now. But you see, it's not just a matter of making the words and notes. There are inflections. Numerous inflections. There is breath singing, falsetto singing, growling, light vibrato, strong vibrato, accent...

Do I really need to go on?

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Burillo
KVRAF
3090 posts since 15 Nov, 2006 from Hell

Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Post Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:42 am

DrMEM wrote:I don't understand why we don't have a proper sample based vocal library yet. There are only 44 phonemes (vocal articulations, essentially) in the English language. I must be missing something, because I figure all you'd have to do is record each of those phonemes across say a 4 octave range and allow for midi cc or keyswitching between them (figuring out a good midi map would probably be the hardest part). That's 2112 samples for 1x rr.

Then maybe you'd want 4 dynamic layers, something like soft, normal, emotional, and gritty, and of course you'd want rr too. That puts you at 33792 samples for 4x rr at each of the four dynamic layers.

What am I missing here?
you're missing Realitone libraries :)
From Russia with love

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wagtunes
KVRAF
13977 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Post Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:50 am

Burillo wrote:
DrMEM wrote:I don't understand why we don't have a proper sample based vocal library yet. There are only 44 phonemes (vocal articulations, essentially) in the English language. I must be missing something, because I figure all you'd have to do is record each of those phonemes across say a 4 octave range and allow for midi cc or keyswitching between them (figuring out a good midi map would probably be the hardest part). That's 2112 samples for 1x rr.

Then maybe you'd want 4 dynamic layers, something like soft, normal, emotional, and gritty, and of course you'd want rr too. That puts you at 33792 samples for 4x rr at each of the four dynamic layers.

What am I missing here?
you're missing Realitone libraries :)
I have them but they're very limited. They're great for background vocals but that's about it. No way to do lead vocals with them unless it's for a very simple song that has the words built into the program. And the dictionary is sparse, to say the least.

mementus
KVRist
456 posts since 10 Apr, 2011

Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Post Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:37 pm

Just in case any marketing guys from Vocaloid were reading.

I would get it, but, I would like to try a demo first!
Last but not least, I would like to watch a video-tutorial where it's explained how to work with it inside a DAW, Cubase preferably.

Please, do it.
Thank you.

DrMEM
KVRist
143 posts since 6 Aug, 2017

Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Post Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:06 pm

wagtunes wrote:
DrMEM wrote:I don't understand why we don't have a proper sample based vocal library yet. There are only 44 phonemes (vocal articulations, essentially) in the English language. I must be missing something, because I figure all you'd have to do is record each of those phonemes across say a 4 octave range and allow for midi cc or keyswitching between them (figuring out a good midi map would probably be the hardest part). That's 2112 samples for 1x rr.

Then maybe you'd want 4 dynamic layers, something like soft, normal, emotional, and gritty, and of course you'd want rr too. That puts you at 33792 samples for 4x rr at each of the four dynamic layers.

What am I missing here?
A lot. The nuances of the human voice are...well, let's just say it is the most complex instrument on the planet. If it were as simple as you say, somebody would have done it by now. But you see, it's not just a matter of making the words and notes. There are inflections. Numerous inflections. There is breath singing, falsetto singing, growling, light vibrato, strong vibrato, accent...

Do I really need to go on?
Script the legato and vibrato. You can do 4x rr for any articulation you can think of at a cost of 8448 samples (or fewer for a smaller singing range). That's what makes it feasible. It'd still be a ton of work, but it's not prohibitive.

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BMoore
KVRAF
1557 posts since 19 Aug, 2011

Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Post Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:07 pm

wagtunes wrote:The snobbery in this place is laughable, not to mention the hypocrisy.

The other day, one of our moderators (Kevvvv) was looking for a string machine. And all these suggestions came up, including what I think is one of the best ones out today, Arturia's Solina V.

Even though these things sound NOTHING like real strings. In fact, it's laughable to even consider these as a replacement for the real thing. But we use them. And we're not only content with them but we LOVE THEM.

And then, we have all our sample libraries that we use in place of the REAL thing. We love them too, even though some of them aren't all that great and even the best ones fall way short of the real thing in terms of sound and expressiveness.

And then, even with vocals, we use vocoders and other vocal FX processors that turn a human voice into a Cher clone because, by gosh, we LOVE THAT TOO.

But Vocaloid? We can't hurl enough insults at it. We can't find words vile enough to say about it.

What a bunch of hypocrites.
The term "string machine" is by no means meant to mean Vienna-type strings and the like.
Cats are intended to teach us that not everything in nature has a function | http://soundcloud.com/bmoorebeats

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wagtunes
KVRAF
13977 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Post Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:15 pm

DrMEM wrote:
wagtunes wrote:
DrMEM wrote:I don't understand why we don't have a proper sample based vocal library yet. There are only 44 phonemes (vocal articulations, essentially) in the English language. I must be missing something, because I figure all you'd have to do is record each of those phonemes across say a 4 octave range and allow for midi cc or keyswitching between them (figuring out a good midi map would probably be the hardest part). That's 2112 samples for 1x rr.

Then maybe you'd want 4 dynamic layers, something like soft, normal, emotional, and gritty, and of course you'd want rr too. That puts you at 33792 samples for 4x rr at each of the four dynamic layers.

What am I missing here?
A lot. The nuances of the human voice are...well, let's just say it is the most complex instrument on the planet. If it were as simple as you say, somebody would have done it by now. But you see, it's not just a matter of making the words and notes. There are inflections. Numerous inflections. There is breath singing, falsetto singing, growling, light vibrato, strong vibrato, accent...

Do I really need to go on?
Script the legato and vibrato. You can do 4x rr for any articulation you can think of at a cost of 8448 samples (or fewer for a smaller singing range). That's what makes it feasible. It'd still be a ton of work, but it's not prohibitive.
Not prohibitive? That's debatable. But I'm not going to argue the issue any further because, trust me, nobody is going to try to make a convincing singing engine on samples.

deastman
KVRAF
6826 posts since 7 Aug, 2003 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Post Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:16 pm

If it can make me sing like Wags, I’m in!
Incomplete list of my gear: 110V AC to 12V DC 1.5A power supply (+ tip)

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wagtunes
KVRAF
13977 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Post Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:19 pm

deastman wrote:If it can make me sing like Wags, I’m in!
LMAO. A Vocaloid that sang like me? Hell, even I wouldn't buy it.

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djanthonyw
KVRAF
6973 posts since 20 Jul, 2004

Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Post Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:42 pm

DrMEM wrote:I don't understand why we don't have a proper sample based vocal library yet. There are only 44 phonemes (vocal articulations, essentially) in the English language. I must be missing something, because I figure all you'd have to do is record each of those phonemes across say a 4 octave range and allow for midi cc or keyswitching between them (figuring out a good midi map would probably be the hardest part). That's 2112 samples for 1x rr.

Then maybe you'd want 4 dynamic layers, something like soft, normal, emotional, and gritty, and of course you'd want rr too. That puts you at 33792 samples for 4x rr at each of the four dynamic layers.

What am I missing here?
Try this. It sounds better than Vocaloid to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goDHaTz62Fs&t=1337s
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