Separating My Producing And Mixing Process

[Zexila]

[kelldammit]

[1a] When committing individual Midi-based tracks to audio (whether it be bouncing a virtual instrument's output to audio or recording the audio output from a midi-controlled hardware synth), what influences your decision to commit an individual Midi-based track to a single stereo audio track; to a single mono audio track; or to multiple mono channel audio tracks?

I pretty much always multi-out multitimbrals (stuff like orchestral instruments). If something really has to be stereo, i'll render it as such. Generally, though, i prefer mono renders, even for pads (i'll usually use two different mono pads vs one stereo).

[1b] How does this impact your panning and level decisions for mixing that audio (which originated from a Midi-based track)?

It rarely does. I tend to leave everything center when working out the arrangement...if it works okay like that, panning later just makes it sound even bigger. I mostly just worry about exporting the track files at sane levels.

[2a] Similar to the last question, when committing the output from a Midi-based drumkit (a virtual instrument or a drum machine) to audio, what influences your decision to commit to a single stereo mixdown of all drum channels; to individual stereo or mono audio tracks; or to multiple mono channel audio tracks?

For electronic drums, i usually just go for multi-mono. I use superior for acoustic drums mostly, and i usually do some subgrouping in the instrument. Given superior's mic bleeds, they usually end up as stereo tracks.

[2b] If committing to a combination of individual stereo and mono tracks, which drum parts do you render to mono (e.g. kick and snare); and which ones to stereo (e.g. toms)? Also, how do you prefer to pan/balance any individual mono or stereo drum parts?
I am interested in learning how other folks approach these decisions. Thanks in advance.

that sort of all depends on the song...the usual advice would be high-amplitude stuff up the middle (kick/snare), and wherever the other stuff works best.
I've done stuff using 4 mono kits, too...elec kit left, elec kit right, elec kit center, with an acoustic kit center to punch it up...so, whatever works for the song!

Since you're asking in the context of Mixbus, my usual approach in other DAWs would be to dump out all individual files, then use a bus-within-a bus-within-a-bus approach from there, but Mixbus' design doesn't suit that so well (mixbus does let you create subbusses "under" the mixbusses, but afaik, those subs aren't delay compensated), so if i know i'll use MB, i tend to render more subgroups than i normally would.

[tonedef71]

Thanks for sharing your approach.

I pretty much always multi-out multitimbrals (stuff like orchestral instruments). If something really has to be stereo, i'll render it as such. Generally, though, i prefer mono renders, even for pads (i'll usually use two different mono pads vs one stereo).

Sounds like you like to have more control on the final mix.

I tend to leave everything center when working out the arrangement...if it works okay like that, panning later just makes it sound even bigger. I mostly just worry about exporting the track files at sane levels.

Sounds like a reasonable approach.

For electronic drums, i usually just go for multi-mono. I use superior for acoustic drums mostly, and i usually do some subgrouping in the instrument. Given superior's mic bleeds, they usually end up as stereo tracks.

Yeah, i mostly use drum virtual instruments. Jancivil also mentioned leveraging the capabilities provided by the virtual drum instrument itself.

the usual advice would be high-amplitude stuff up the middle (kick/snare), and wherever the other stuff works best.
I've done stuff using 4 mono kits, too...elec kit left, elec kit right, elec kit center, with an acoustic kit center to punch it up...so, whatever works for the song!

Interesting technique for using multiple drum kits. Have you ever varied what each drum kit is playing (e.g. for creative polyrhythmic effect)? A few southern rock bands come to mind as having two drummers (e.g. Lynyrd Skynyrd; 38 Special).

Since you're asking in the context of Mixbus, my usual approach in other DAWs would be to dump out all individual files, then use a bus-within-a bus-within-a-bus approach from there, but Mixbus' design doesn't suit that so well (mixbus does let you create subbusses "under" the mixbusses, but afaik, those subs aren't delay compensated), so if i know i'll use MB, i tend to render more subgroups than i normally would.

Thanks. I think it was the original poster who uses Harrison Mixbus.

[kelldammit]

Thanks for sharing your approach.

I pretty much always multi-out multitimbrals (stuff like orchestral instruments). If something really has to be stereo, i'll render it as such. Generally, though, i prefer mono renders, even for pads (i'll usually use two different mono pads vs one stereo).

Sounds like you like to have more control on the final mix.

yeah, once i get the arrangement working, i like the flexibility to completely foul it up in the actual mix!

the usual advice would be high-amplitude stuff up the middle (kick/snare), and wherever the other stuff works best.
I've done stuff using 4 mono kits, too...elec kit left, elec kit right, elec kit center, with an acoustic kit center to punch it up...so, whatever works for the song!

Interesting technique for using multiple drum kits. Have you ever varied what each drum kit is playing (e.g. for creative polyrhythmic effect)? A few southern rock bands come to mind as having two drummers (e.g. Lynyrd Skynyrd; 38 Special).

i haven't messed around with polyrhythm in the sense of overlaying different time sigs, but in that particular case, each of the kits were playing a different pattern. The "1" kicks (except for the center electronic drums) and the snares all lined up, but only one of the hats was open or busy at any given time. the left and right kicks were highpassed a good deal, but the center electronic and acoustic kicks were full bandwidth, with the center e-kick sort of "answering" the acoustic one. it worked out pretty cool, and lent the snares a really nice heft when all of them were firing. it also allowed for a neat little breakdown/buildup!

[macmuse]

The following tracking/mixing questions are directed to anyone who wishes to contribute their own personal insight:

[1a] When committing individual Midi-based tracks to audio (whether it be bouncing a virtual instrument's output to audio or recording the audio output from a midi-controlled hardware synth), what influences your decision to commit an individual Midi-based track to a single stereo audio track; to a single mono audio track; or to multiple mono channel audio tracks?

[1b] How does this impact your panning and level decisions for mixing that audio (which originated from a Midi-based track)?

[2a] Similar to the last question, when committing the output from a Midi-based drumkit (a virtual instrument or a drum machine) to audio, what influences your decision to commit to a single stereo mixdown of all drum channels; to individual stereo or mono audio tracks; or to multiple mono channel audio tracks?

[2b] If committing to a combination of individual stereo and mono tracks, which drum parts do you render to mono (e.g. kick and snare); and which ones to stereo (e.g. toms)? Also, how do you prefer to pan/balance any individual mono or stereo drum parts?

I am interested in learning how other folks approach these decisions. Thanks in advance.

The vast majority of my stuff is from VIs and I use Studio One for most stuff. I do most of the sound editing from the VI itself.

For drums, I render it as a stereo file because the individual drums will have been already pre-mixed and panned in the VI. In my case, I see no need to have individual tracks for VI drums because I did not track a live drum kit with multiple mics. Plus, with a stereo file, it makes less tracks in a session which is always a good thing.

Once I commit, I will then pan accordingly. For stereo files, which most of them are since they originated from a VI, if I need to narrow the field or make mono, I will use a width plugin for that. Mono tracks are usually an added kick drum (panned to center) and of course bass.

My composing/mixing method: I used Logic from the mid-90s onward and do own LPX, but I just like S1 better. Back with Logic, (mostly due to CPU), I rendered all tracks then did the mix. Studio One has this great feature of transforming the MIDI track to an audio track, like freeze but much better: after having transformed to audio, you can move regions around / change it / edit it, but if you want to revert back to MIDI, the changes you make will now be reflected in the MIDI. The S1 feature is also fantastic because a lot of the time when I had finished an arrangement and committed to audio, I would think to add something else which made me have to make new MIDI / audio all over the place. This just makes it a dream to later add things or change things without endless fiddling, although I do strive to commit as early as possible in the arrangement.

In the early days before freeze was invented, having these afterthoughts made it particularly cumbersome because there were two separate sessions (MIDI session, audio session) as I would have to coordinate them so that both had all the tracks and both sessions were equal with the parts.

[tonedef71]

Thank you for adding your feedback!

The vast majority of my stuff is from VIs and I use Studio One for most stuff. I do most of the sound editing from the VI itself.

I also primarily use VI drums. Letting the drum VI itself manage the drums seems to be a common recommendation.

For drums, I render it as a stereo file because the individual drums will have been already pre-mixed and panned in the VI. In my case, I see no need to have individual tracks for VI drums because I did not track a live drum kit with multiple mics.

Sounds like a good idea.

Plus, with a stereo file, it makes less tracks in a session which is always a good thing.

Indeed. I am finding that all of the extra drum audio tracks do make the project a bit more cumbersome to manage. Also, when I insert FX plugins to process specific drum part tracks, more CPU gets used up. Sometimes I hear extra noise being added by the FX plugins which does not always sound pleasing after I mix all of the individual drum tracks together.

Once I commit, I will then pan accordingly. For stereo files, which most of them are since they originated from a VI, if I need to narrow the field or make mono, I will use a width plugin for that. Mono tracks are usually an added kick drum (panned to center) and of course bass.

Sounds applicable to my workflow.

My composing/mixing method: I used Logic from the mid-90s onward and do own LPX, but I just like S1 better. Back with Logic, (mostly due to CPU), I rendered all tracks then did the mix. Studio One has this great feature of transforming the MIDI track to an audio track, like freeze but much better: after having transformed to audio, you can move regions around / change it / edit it, but if you want to revert back to MIDI, the changes you make will now be reflected in the MIDI. The S1 feature is also fantastic because a lot of the time when I had finished an arrangement and committed to audio, I would think to add something else which made me have to make new MIDI / audio all over the place. This just makes it a dream to later add things or change things without endless fiddling, although I do strive to commit as early as possible in the arrangement.

I switched to S1 as my primary DAW and like it very much. Plenty of time-saving and workflow-enhancing tips to be found in S1. Thanks for sharing the tip.

In the early days before freeze was invented, having these afterthoughts made it particularly cumbersome because there were two separate sessions (MIDI session, audio session) as I would have to coordinate them so that both had all the tracks and both sessions were equal with the parts.

That is the way I found myself working; multiple sessions: one for programming the music, one for tracking, one for mixing, and one for post-mixing/pseudo-mastering. Perhaps it is time I go back and consolidate some of these sessions.

[low_low]

Might sound weird, but working backwards to think about your process is probably insightful. You have a packaged CD (1) how did it get packaged ? (2) where did the UPC code come from ? (3) how did you print the art on the package, (4) how did you create the art for the packaging (5) How did the CD art get printed on the Cd, (6) how did the CD art get created, (7) How did you register the copyright ? (8) How did you get a license for the CD art from the artist ? etc, etc . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (199) How did you archive the master ? (200) Where did you get the media to save the master ? (201) How did you decide the master was complete ? (202) Final tweaking (203) How did you choose people to get together to listen to the master to give final input (204) How did you decide enough was enough and that you were satisfied with the master ? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (250) How did you decide what environments to choose for a listening environment while mastering ? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (300) How did you make stems for mastering ? (301) How did you decide what to make into stems ? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (340) How did you store the final mix ? (341) Final mix (342) How did you decide who you would play the mix for in order to get feedback for the final mix ? (343) How did you decide you were done mixing ? (344) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (9999) How did you decide you wanted to make a song ?

[tonedef71]

Might sound weird, but working backwards to think about your process is probably insightful. You have a packaged CD (1) how did it get packaged ? (2) where did the UPC code come from ? (3) how did you print the art on the package, (4) how did you create the art for the packaging (5) How did the CD art get printed on the Cd, (6) how did the CD art get created, (7) How did you register the copyright ? (8) How did you get a license for the CD art from the artist ? etc, etc . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (199) How did you archive the master ? (200) Where did you get the media to save the master ? (201) How did you decide the master was complete ? (202) Final tweaking (203) How did you choose people to get together to listen to the master to give final input (204) How did you decide enough was enough and that you were satisfied with the master ? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (250) How did you decide what environments to choose for a listening environment while mastering ? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (300) How did you make stems for mastering ? (301) How did you decide what to make into stems ? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (340) How did you store the final mix ? (341) Final mix (342) How did you decide who you would play the mix for in order to get feedback for the final mix ? (343) How did you decide you were done mixing ? (344) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (9999) How did you decide you wanted to make a song ?

Crikey! Do I appear to be on pace for asking that many questions of other music creators? If so, I apologize.

[low_low]

Crikey! Do I appear to be on pace for asking that many questions of other music creators? If so, I apologize.

?

I was responding to the OP, I probably should have mentioned that ... I was responding to the question of essentially do I need to separate mastering from mixing, and I was saying that it's probably insightful to think about your process backwards to figure out if you need to.

[tonedef71]

?

I was responding to the OP, I probably should have mentioned that ... I was responding to the question of essentially do I need to separate mastering from mixing, and I was saying that it's probably insightful to think about your process backwards to figure out if you need to.

Ah, I understand you now.

Kudos to the original poster of this thread for inspiring this interesting discussion; however, he has not contributed here since his original post.