Progressive trance kick drum

How to make that sound...
xshd
KVRer
3 posts since 19 Dec, 2017

Post Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:15 am

Hello!
Been trying to understand the kick drum right here in this track.. Seems simple, but oh boy it takes some thinking how it is done.. Well composed with other elements but is it me or is this kick made from 2 different samples (or more?) Beginning could be low pass filter, but I think it is only first layer of kick (top) with bit of mid, and then after first 15-20 seconds comes low part of kick like around 50hZ and nicely fill the bottom. Question.. It is good sample for sure, but I smeel some heavy processing on kick / sub . Multiband maybe? It's powerful.. It is nicely 'moved' and playin in just right time.. Any ideas, tips to try to achieve something like that? Of course it depends on tonation and other elements, but let's try to 'reverse engineer' this kick

Track here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zhNNHT7quc

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Ari-S
KVRist
121 posts since 2 May, 2014 from The Netherlands

Re: Progressive trance kick drum

Post Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:52 am

There is nothing really special about it. Sounds like a basic synthesized kick drum. Just a sine wave with a really fast and snappy pitch envelope, probably with the transient of a hi-hat sample layered on top of it. Look up "psytrance kick" in the search bar for some similar discussions this topic (I know this ain't psytrance, but the techniques for kick drum synthesis are the same principle).
Turn off your Brain & Turn on your Heart

xshd
KVRer
3 posts since 19 Dec, 2017

Re: Progressive trance kick drum

Post Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:18 am

Thanks for reply. I believe it's layered like at least two samples, but how great it's "sitting" in the mix! It's punchy, yet not dominating, although the lowest element in the track.
Curious what kind of processing is there.

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Ari-S
KVRist
121 posts since 2 May, 2014 from The Netherlands

Re: Progressive trance kick drum

Post Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:01 pm

I also became a little curious so I tried to recreate it. Got pretty close, if I say so myself: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1vsKOZ ... siVmfxrgFe

I've layered a hi-hat and a few noisy/gritty kick drums with a compact but rich high-end on top of a synthesized kick that I've made using BazzISM. The synthesized kick defines the whole body of this kick, so it's really important to tweak with the pitch envelope until it has the right amount of energy. Than I added the gritty kick layers + hi-hat and high-pass them so that they don't interfere with the low-end and low-mid of the body.

The processing was mainly some eq, heavy compression, multi-band saturation, tape-saturation and limiting. The compression in combination with the multi-band saturation made a big difference here. I've used FabFilter's Saturn for the mb saturation and added some tube overdrive on the mid- and high frequencies. This really enhanced that gritty character. Than I added an SSL-style compressor with a medium attack and short release and squashed it down quite a bit, to get the transient really tight and to lower the volume of the tail a bit before I added even some more (tape-)saturation (which is crucial, because otherwise the tail will contain too much harmonics). Finally I applied some limiting to squash the peaks and get a more even dynamic.

I'd say that, even tho the processing I've used definitely made a lot of difference, the sample selection (and synthesis) is where it all comes down to. If you don't start with the right sounds to begin with, you'll never end up with the desired result.
Turn off your Brain & Turn on your Heart

andymcbain
KVRist
180 posts since 10 Jan, 2017

Re: Progressive trance kick drum

Post Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:47 am

The more I pile the processing onto homemade kicks the more I end up bitterly disappointed. For me the best approach, and probably the one Armin uses, is to find the best samples you can and experiment with layering. Or at least synthesize the sub and throw a top layer and punch layer in there.

If you can justify the cost, Vengeance Sound Metrum is something of a treasure trove for drum layers, though it's synthesis section is dated now in comparison to Kick 2.

xshd
KVRer
3 posts since 19 Dec, 2017

Re: Progressive trance kick drum

Post Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:01 am

Thanks guys for replies!

@Ari-S, quite good result, just still quite not the same punch as in this precise example. Sometimes when I play this track, I hear two layered sounds - bottom and mid-top as two different samples, one is extremely similar to what i found in Vengeance sample pack (probably electroshock or somethin like that, there are punchy kicks.Some other times I am pretty sure there is some strange hihat on the kickas well, but then maybe just saturation like FabFilter Saturn as Armin and Benno uses that a lot (probably).
Sample choice is extremely important as with processing it might get with great, powerful sounding results. To be honest I like this kick most from the all tracks release under 'Gaia' alias. It's perfect, bottom kick filling the track and perfect balance with basseline. About the second, what is your guess? Synthmaster for bass is quite possible there.

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Ari-S
KVRist
121 posts since 2 May, 2014 from The Netherlands

Re: Progressive trance kick drum

Post Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:42 am

Well, if you're so sure it's a vengeance kick layered with another sample and some saturation, then just do that and you should be done, right?

To be honest, I think you're overthinking it a bit too much. Not long ago I found myself getting over-obsessed about the sound of certain kick drums as well, and now I begin to realize it's a complete waste of time. Sure, the sound of the kick drum is important in (electronic) dance music, but there is no point in pondering day after day to achieve a 100% accurate recreation of a single kick drum. We're not Armin van Buuren nor Benno de Goeij, so just accept that you're not gonna get something completely identical.
Also remember the way that kick hits this hard has a lot to do with the mix-down of that track. Just the bare kick on it's own will not sound as big as it does within the whole track. Learn to zoom out, instead of just constantly focussing on one single element.
Turn off your Brain & Turn on your Heart

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VELLTONE MUSIC
KVRist
454 posts since 19 Sep, 2017 from Planet Earth

Re: Progressive trance kick drum

Post Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:22 am

The kick is ok,hi hat has something wrong,which somehow affect the mix.
Modern music at all lack of some basic components old compositions rely back in the days - intro,chorus,bridge,cadence such stuff and is more mix and fx than cool composition n progression of ideas.
Some guys have no idea what is minor and major chord but still sell stuff very successfully,which is ok but invest more time and money in self improvement,it's art not shishqebap :)
So conclusion is music is totally fktup thanks to kids and mp3 muahahaha.
Cheerz :)

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Ari-S
KVRist
121 posts since 2 May, 2014 from The Netherlands

Re: Progressive trance kick drum

Post Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:25 pm

VELLTONE MUSIC wrote:The kick is ok,hi hat has something wrong,which somehow affect the mix.
Modern music at all lack of some basic components old compositions rely back in the days - intro,chorus,bridge,cadence such stuff and is more mix and fx than cool composition n progression of ideas.
Some guys have no idea what is minor and major chord but still sell stuff very successfully,which is ok but invest more time and money in self improvement,it's art not shishqebap :)
So conclusion is music is totally fktup thanks to kids and mp3 muahahaha.
Cheerz :)
It's funny how you first criticized the mix and then went on with how modern music has too much focus on the mix-down and how much you despise that...
Turn off your Brain & Turn on your Heart

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VELLTONE MUSIC
KVRist
454 posts since 19 Sep, 2017 from Planet Earth

Re: Progressive trance kick drum

Post Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:46 pm

Ari-S wrote:
VELLTONE MUSIC wrote:The kick is ok,hi hat has something wrong,which somehow affect the mix.
Modern music at all lack of some basic components old compositions rely back in the days - intro,chorus,bridge,cadence such stuff and is more mix and fx than cool composition n progression of ideas.
Some guys have no idea what is minor and major chord but still sell stuff very successfully,which is ok but invest more time and money in self improvement,it's art not shishqebap :)
So conclusion is music is totally fktup thanks to kids and mp3 muahahaha.
Cheerz :)
It's funny how you first criticized the mix and then went on with how modern music has too much focus on the mix-down and how much you despise that...
Once i had chance to meet young DJ who had no idea about chords and basic music theory,vwho told me: - You have to learn better how to make music I don't have time to teach you how WE make it ...?:):):)
It's issues for every producer to find 'right' hats in this case i think song will benefit with some not so crisp but smooth hats and different composition of them,IT'S OPINION not necessary right or wrong
- hi end will always be problematic considering that human ear at different age 'hear' differently,
so basically 20,40,60 years old people listening(OR MAKING)same track will hear different thing,
aside from objective and subjective stuff like monitors,style,so on,but this is basic i really don't see what we discuss,WHERE you see me despise something related to the music,expressing an opinion ,i do not know.
Most of the songs have such hi end issues,nothing against this track or the creator,but it's childish to think that only because some 'NAME' you like make something, it doesn't have issues or weakness as composition and sound - it's like to say that modern cars have no issues - again it's opinion,not despising modern sound or whatever you see it.Cheerz :)

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Ari-S
KVRist
121 posts since 2 May, 2014 from The Netherlands

Re: Progressive trance kick drum

Post Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:44 am

VELLTONE MUSIC wrote:Once i had chance to meet young DJ who had no idea about chords and basic music theory,vwho told me: - You have to learn better how to make music I don't have time to teach you how WE make it ...?:):):)
It's issues for every producer to find 'right' hats in this case i think song will benefit with some not so crisp but smooth hats and different composition of them,IT'S OPINION not necessary right or wrong
- hi end will always be problematic considering that human ear at different age 'hear' differently,
so basically 20,40,60 years old people listening(OR MAKING)same track will hear different thing,
aside from objective and subjective stuff like monitors,style,so on,but this is basic i really don't see what we discuss,WHERE you see me despise something related to the music,expressing an opinion ,i do not know.
Most of the songs have such hi end issues,nothing against this track or the creator,but it's childish to think that only because some 'NAME' you like make something, it doesn't have issues or weakness as composition and sound - it's like to say that modern cars have no issues - again it's opinion,not despising modern sound or whatever you see it.Cheerz :)
Good job at getting completely off-topic.
Turn off your Brain & Turn on your Heart

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VELLTONE MUSIC
KVRist
454 posts since 19 Sep, 2017 from Planet Earth

Re: Progressive trance kick drum

Post Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:12 pm

Great,focus on it...and teach us all how to make kicks?!

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Ari-S
KVRist
121 posts since 2 May, 2014 from The Netherlands

Re: Progressive trance kick drum

Post Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:12 pm

VELLTONE MUSIC wrote:Great,focus on it...and teach us all how to make kicks?!
Well, it's the sound design forum after all, but thanks for your input. :wink:
Turn off your Brain & Turn on your Heart

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VELLTONE MUSIC
KVRist
454 posts since 19 Sep, 2017 from Planet Earth

Re: Progressive trance kick drum

Post Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:40 am

You wellcome,you start this conversation i just wanna express opinion funny way,not sure why you take it so negative - by the way i like the song and trance is one of my favorite modern styles if just listen without analyzing,as well kvr is great site to learn many things if stay away from offensive and haughty attitude typical for beginners and jerks,no offense :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-ZlezH ... e=youtu.be

codeblue00762
KVRer
7 posts since 7 Sep, 2018

Re: Progressive trance kick drum

Post Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:16 pm

I usually layer two to three kicks all in different frequency ranges to make a good trance kick. Finding good samples always helps too.

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