Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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IncarnateX
KVRAF
3659 posts since 25 Jan, 2009 from Forgotten Realms

Post Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:20 pm

FWIW Wagtunes
I am from a generation where quantised and mechanised electronic music was new and fresh and never heard before. Groups like Kraftwerk, Depeche Mode, Yazoo, Human League, Tangerine Dream, Alphaville and later Nitzer Ebb, Front 242 and Frontline Assembly taught me to love those mechanical, industrial and futuristic moods. When the sampler workstations arrived and some musicians actually wanted to use them to make realistic arrangements, e.g. working their ass off to make a sampled choir or a sax sound “real”, I thought it was a deroute because the point about electronic music is exactly that it does not sound anywhere near classic instruments. Electronic music is based cold and dead machines that are brought to life by man-machine interaction. The music is a hybrid between something dead and alive, a cyborg, something ugly and beautiful, robots we infuse with a kind of soul. And that is how I feel about Vocaloid. The day I cannot longer recognize it as an artificial singer, it is no longer of any interest in my concept of electronic music.

I have been around your corner in the music cafe and think your use of Vocaloid is charming. As artificial as it should be. There are still words and phrases there could be more pronounced etc. but not to an extent where the artifical flavour should vanish, imo.

My 2 cents and a recommendation for you to continue exactly what you do without further distraction.

Take care, mate.
Last edited by IncarnateX on Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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wagtunes
KVRAF
14842 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Post Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:27 pm

IncarnateX wrote:FWIW Wagtunes
I am from a generation where quantised and mechanised electronic music was new and fresh and never heard before. Groups like Kraftwerk, Depeche Mode, Yazoo, Human League, Tangerine Dream, Alphaville and later Nitzer Ebb, Front 242 and Frontline Assembly learned me to love those mechanical, industrial and futuristic moods. When the sampler workstations arrived and some musicians actually wanted to use them to make realistic arrangements, e.g. working their ass off to make a sampled choir or a sax sound “real” , I thought it was a deroute because the point about electronic music is exactly that it does not sound anywhere near classic instruments. Electronic music is based cold and dead machines that are brought to life by man-machine interaction. The music is a hybrid between something dead and alive, a cyborg, something ugly and beautiful, robots we infuse with a kind of soul. And that is how I feel about Vocaloid. The day I cannot longer recognize it as an artificial singer, it is no longer of any interest in my concept of electronic music.

I have been around your corner in the music cafe and think your use of Vocaloid is charming. As artificial as it should be. There are still words and phrases their could be more pronounced etc. but not to an extent where the artifical flavour should vanish, imo.

My 2 cents and a recommendation for you to continue exactly what you do without further distraction.

Take care, mate.
Thank you. I'm from the same generation. I watched The Beatles on Ed Sullivan in 1964. I've been through it all.

GearNostalgia
KVRist
280 posts since 28 Dec, 2017

Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Post Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:19 pm

wagtunes wrote: The new V5 works as a VST just like any other VST would. And that's actually part of the problem.

However, with Vocaloid, you have a playback issue. Let's say you're listening to the first 20 seconds of your track and you want to go back and make a change around the 10 second mark and then start playback from there to see how your change came out. Ideally, you would like to be able to set the play marker in Vocaloid to the 10 second mark and hit the play button and it starts playing from there. Except it doesn't do that. Because moving the Vocaloid play marker doesn't move the DAW play marker. So when you hit the play button after making your changes and moving the Vocaloid play marker, the song still continues from the 20 second point. So you have to exit out of the Vocaloid editor and go back to your DAW controls to move the DAW play marker to 10 seconds.

This is a ROYAL PITA if you're making numerous edits in a song.

That's why I only use V5 for the new voices and/or if I want to access the additional functionality.

One of the first things they have to do in version 5.1 or whatever is to sync up the V5 marker with the DAW marker, if it's even possible.
Ok, I see your point. Maybe it would work out ok for me cause I use dual monitors and have my DAW on one and the plugins on the other. Sadly Vocaloid is to expensive for me in a forseeable future, do they ever have sales btw?

Topcheese
KVRist
202 posts since 12 Nov, 2017

Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Post Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:50 pm

GearNostalgia wrote: Sadly Vocaloid is to expensive for me in a forseeable future, do they ever have sales btw?
You mean like this? It might be just for the libraries, but I thought the editor/player was free.
https://zero-g.co.uk/collections/vocalo ... b2d3a741f8

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wagtunes
KVRAF
14842 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Post Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:49 am

Topcheese wrote:
GearNostalgia wrote: Sadly Vocaloid is to expensive for me in a forseeable future, do they ever have sales btw?
You mean like this? It might be just for the libraries, but I thought the editor/player was free.
https://zero-g.co.uk/collections/vocalo ... b2d3a741f8
V5 is not just an editor. It comes with 4 voices (Standard) or 8 voices (Deluxe) or whatever they call it. There is no way to just get the V5 editor. And V4 was not free either. It was $100 and came with no voices. I've never seen sales for the editors. Voices, yes.

GearNostalgia
KVRist
280 posts since 28 Dec, 2017

Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Post Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:11 am

wagtunes wrote:
Topcheese wrote:
GearNostalgia wrote: Sadly Vocaloid is to expensive for me in a forseeable future, do they ever have sales btw?
You mean like this? It might be just for the libraries, but I thought the editor/player was free.
https://zero-g.co.uk/collections/vocalo ... b2d3a741f8
V5 is not just an editor. It comes with 4 voices (Standard) or 8 voices (Deluxe) or whatever they call it. There is no way to just get the V5 editor. And V4 was not free either. It was $100 and came with no voices. I've never seen sales for the editors. Voices, yes.
Yes I was referring to the V5 editor and not just single voices. Tonio seems like a cool voice to have though, but is seems it does not work at all with V5...

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
14842 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Post Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:12 am

GearNostalgia wrote:
wagtunes wrote:
Topcheese wrote:
GearNostalgia wrote: Sadly Vocaloid is to expensive for me in a forseeable future, do they ever have sales btw?
You mean like this? It might be just for the libraries, but I thought the editor/player was free.
https://zero-g.co.uk/collections/vocalo ... b2d3a741f8
V5 is not just an editor. It comes with 4 voices (Standard) or 8 voices (Deluxe) or whatever they call it. There is no way to just get the V5 editor. And V4 was not free either. It was $100 and came with no voices. I've never seen sales for the editors. Voices, yes.
Yes I was referring to the V5 editor and not just single voices. Tonio seems like a cool voice to have though, but is seems it does not work at all with V5...
Tonio is V2. V2 doesn't work with V5. Only V3 and up.

GearNostalgia
KVRist
280 posts since 28 Dec, 2017

Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Post Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:22 am

wagtunes wrote:
GearNostalgia wrote:
wagtunes wrote:
Topcheese wrote:
GearNostalgia wrote: Sadly Vocaloid is to expensive for me in a forseeable future, do they ever have sales btw?
You mean like this? It might be just for the libraries, but I thought the editor/player was free.
https://zero-g.co.uk/collections/vocalo ... b2d3a741f8
V5 is not just an editor. It comes with 4 voices (Standard) or 8 voices (Deluxe) or whatever they call it. There is no way to just get the V5 editor. And V4 was not free either. It was $100 and came with no voices. I've never seen sales for the editors. Voices, yes.
Yes I was referring to the V5 editor and not just single voices. Tonio seems like a cool voice to have though, but is seems it does not work at all with V5...
Tonio is V2. V2 doesn't work with V5. Only V3 and up.
Zero-G mentions that the V2 works after using a conversion tool. There is no conversion tool for V5?

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
14842 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Post Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:43 am

GearNostalgia wrote:
wagtunes wrote:
GearNostalgia wrote:
wagtunes wrote:
Topcheese wrote:
GearNostalgia wrote: Sadly Vocaloid is to expensive for me in a forseeable future, do they ever have sales btw?
You mean like this? It might be just for the libraries, but I thought the editor/player was free.
https://zero-g.co.uk/collections/vocalo ... b2d3a741f8
V5 is not just an editor. It comes with 4 voices (Standard) or 8 voices (Deluxe) or whatever they call it. There is no way to just get the V5 editor. And V4 was not free either. It was $100 and came with no voices. I've never seen sales for the editors. Voices, yes.
Yes I was referring to the V5 editor and not just single voices. Tonio seems like a cool voice to have though, but is seems it does not work at all with V5...
Tonio is V2. V2 doesn't work with V5. Only V3 and up.
Zero-G mentions that the V2 works after using a conversion tool. There is no conversion tool for V5?
I have no idea.

GearNostalgia
KVRist
280 posts since 28 Dec, 2017

Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Post Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:04 pm

wagtunes wrote:
GearNostalgia wrote:
Zero-G mentions that the V2 works after using a conversion tool. There is no conversion tool for V5?
I have no idea.
Ohh, I thought that conversion tool came with Yamahas Vocaloid,

WinterdrivE
KVRer
9 posts since 23 Nov, 2014

Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Post Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:59 pm

You can use V2 VOCALOIDs in V5 by switching the files that actually hold the voice data between the V2 and a V3+, basically "confusing" the engine. The program thinks its loading a V3/4/5, but the vocal data in that folder will be from the V2, so even though the engine will display the V3/4/5's name, the V2's voice will come out. Its sorta questionable how legal/allowed this is by the EULA, but people have already done it and have been doing it with V4's cross synth feature for a long time.

Also, unrelated, but I just realized that the title "Fire you singers" means "terminate your singers' employment" and isn't a play on "fire your engines" (unless it is???)
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0Mp1w ... HHhixEqmJg
Follow me on Twitter! @Winter_drivE
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baggagelizard
KVRer
19 posts since 28 Dec, 2010

Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Post Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:44 pm

Many of us Vocaloid users don't want to fire our singers (Not that I have any, but I could get them if I wanted). Singers are great; you can't truly replace them, never will. Same with Acoustic Instruments and Analog Synths. Never will truly be replaced.

Since the human voice is something almost all people have and are very familiar with, like with computer graphics as it becomes more realistic it falls into an uncanny valley, and personally I feel chasing that type of realism isn't quite worth it with the technology yet. It's not to say I don't want to use Vocaloid. It is useful for electronic, jpop (jpop can have Jazz and prog rock influences anyway), maybe progressive rock/electronic stuff, as well as interesting Jazz and of course experimental stuff. Vocals are more understandable now than in previous engines, which is good.

To those who prefer stuff like Realivox: that's great~ use what works best with you! I wouldn't say to discredit anything without trying it first. Even amazing things could be created with so called bad kontakt libraries.

low_low
KVRist
362 posts since 20 Jul, 2018

Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Post Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:59 pm

I think vocaloid is really impressive in its realism, and like the poster above said, that isn't even anything I'm that interested in - though I do like that it is intelligible, if artificial. The reason I say I'm impressed by the realism is because the human brain is VERY sensitive to sounds of the human voice, so it's amazing they've got it dialed in so well. It's like our eyes ... we can't make out the difference between two 100 foot trees at 500 meters, but we can instantly see whether the tiny figure walking along a ridge line at that distance is a male or female human being.

Musical Gym
KVRAF
4885 posts since 24 May, 2004 from square1

Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Post Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:36 pm

Vocaloids are derived from actual human vocal fragments of real singers.

damayor
KVRist
89 posts since 12 Feb, 2015

Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Post Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:52 pm

How do you use this in vst? I wanted to use it in Fl studio but all I see is rewire which I can use in sonar.

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