Do not underestimate Reason...

[SeanyK]

I been searching for free vsti's, even purchasing some of the 'commercial' ones (Vanguard/Discovery).

Yet whilst this was going on, I overlooked the fact I had Reason 2.5

As a registered user I also get the extra sounds they put every so often on the Propellerheads.se site which means even more sounds than what came with it (tons already!).
Also scouring ebay for refill cd's can be good!

Anyway, the point is, I never really realised about that program.
Redrum, and a few samples loaded into NNXT and would I be right in saying it uses LESS cpu power than some vsti's?

It really is a great program, and I cant recommend it enough, for £195, its a complete and utter bargain.

Anyone else agree?

[quincy]

This one might kick off. Allow me to start

I used to own reason (yes - another one i bought then sold fairly quick ) and i found it to be a very inspiring piece of software, in the sense that it was very immediately fun to play with.

That said, despite excellent CPU usage and rock-solid stability the like i've never seen elsewhere, i found some of the synths and FX distinctly thin and frankly rather average.

The whole hardware interface thing, whilst fun and flexible, just turned out to be a chore once i tried anything further than simple setups (couple of sends and a few insert FX).

Basically my conclusion was that it was a nice toy and massive fun value in the first instance, but it then got tiring very quickly. Someone said it better than me elsewhere, but the whole "hardware-alike" thing may look nice, but it doesn't exactly take advantage of the nature of software GUIs. It seems a bit backward to be honest (in general, not just reason).

Anyway thats enough of me rambling. Who wants to attack me first? Any reason fans in the mood?

[SeanyK]

I see where you are coming from;

As a standalone program I wouldnt like it at all, I use it only through CubaseSL (Rewired).
And use it with several VSTi's too, which would 'fatten' up songs.

I havent started 'dabbling' properly with loads of sounds at once yet.

I could see it being potentially annoying, if you wanted like 10 sounds, and had to load 10 instances of NNXT or Redrum etc.

Im still at the basics stage (yep you guessed it, the manual is in my drawer underneath the SL2 manual which I have still yet to read ).

Each to their own though mate, thats the fun of music

[donkey tugger]

The whole hardware interface thing, whilst fun and flexible, just turned out to be a chore once i tried anything further than simple setups (couple of sends and a few insert FX).

Indeed, going back to something after a few weeks was always 'eh? what the f**k is going on here then?' Large projects got verrryyyyy confusing. Was never much of a fan of rewire either, too much faffing about.

[snooky]

Reason is at it´s greatest when u use it Rewired or as a music "scratch" pad for making loops and sequences!

[quincy]

Exactly mate, variety is the spice of life

The whole interface thing is gonna change i think, you look at something like Tracktion and it rams loads of functionality into a simple interface becasue it takes advantage of the flexible nature of graphics.

Why have fixed knobs and dials that look like hardware, when you can have a fluid interface that can be resized, strecthed and adapted to fit the needs of the user or individual task.

I think there is so much room for improvement in user interface design in general, but then its a very new discipline in relative terms, and one that has probably not had much application in terms of music software.

Given that much of the development of the music software industry has consisted of persuading the old-school hardware purists to use software, its not surprising its gone this way really.

Now that there is a huge body of music software users, and for many this is all they know, the developers would be well advised to look at how things can be done differently, and better.

[Reverend Rhythm]

Threads like this seem to go down in flames... but let me say that I use reason on a regular basis. I have used it alone and rewired. To me it is one instrument. It's not cameleon, but I like what it is. My most used sounds are the electromechical refill from Props(free) and Sonic Reality's refills (purchased).

[gizmo]

I've got a love-hate thing with Reason. I can accomplish more in it than in Tracktion because of the CPU issue, but I like the Tracktion way of working better. I use GPO in Tracktion and it's a blast. Reason has a long way to go now to catch up with the many innovative ideas coming from smaller developers. But because my time and budget are limited I'm still interested in the one-stop-shop approach, just with more flexibility and taking advantage of the "soft" potential. But I don't think this will ever come from the Props, too hardwired to their retro-vision.

[quincy]

I've got a love-hate thing with Reason. I can accomplish more in it than in Tracktion because of the CPU issue, but I like the Tracktion way of working better. I use GPO in Tracktion and it's a blast. Reason has a long way to go now to catch up with the many innovative ideas coming from smaller developers. But because my time and budget are limited I'm still interested in the one-stop-shop approach, just with more flexibility and taking advantage of the "soft" potential. But I don't think this will ever come from the Props, too hardwired to their retro-vision.

I think its fairto say that the propellerheads may have been ahead of the game when they released Reason, and certainly when they released Rebirth, but not now.

Take Dr-Rex. Its a great little tool, and it may have been an innovation on first release, but now there are many loop-slicing plugins, and a lot more flexible and advanced ones than that.

And for a lot of people, the benefits of a closed system (which i think is great in many ways) eventually give way to feeling restricted. Sooner or later the user will get bored of the limited number of tools provided, and want more.

I've never believed they will open it up to plugin support, and i still don't think they will. So that may be a problem never resolved.

[drez]

I used Reason constantly. It used to be all I used, and then I would sample it in Live3 and work with VST Effects on those parts and have a ball.

Now, I use it with Live4 and it is a great way to go. I can easily layer tons of Reason modules in Live with no CPU hit, add some nifty VST Effects, and sequence in Live. Its the ultimate setup as far as I'm concerned.

Quincy, I see what you are saying about thin. Alot of times its hard to get that 800 pound-sound slammin through a mix with Reason...

BUT...I can load a supafat VST Monster that Eats up that dense space and use the 20 pound Reason synths to add flavor, candy, whathaveyou. You can't have 10 huge sounding VSTi's going on or everything is falling all over each other. Showcase that Fat, and sprinkle the thinly stuff around it. My music is better because of Live4 because I can quickly create a huge synth or two with VST's and then use Reason to shine it up.

Redrum is awesome to program in and then dumping that into Live and mangling it with warp markers is really cool. The Matrix may be simple, but because of its CV gating, you can create some freakin cool movement with it. Malstrom is the only synth of its kind and works a treat in many situations. Scream4 is THE distortion plugin. The subtractor may be long in the tooth, but it works great in a mix. You can make it pretty dense, but you don't have to...plenty of other things can do that already.

NN-XT is the best bang-for-your-buck Sampler and has unique features that other big boys don't. The RV7000 is the best Reverb I have found that uses almost no CPU.

And the routing is amazing. You will never get that capability in any other host with any number of VST's. The closed system has a big 'ol leg up on every host with routing. The only system close to it is EnergyXT.

Stability is probably the most amazing thing about Reason. I have never ever ever ever had a single crash....in over 3 years!!! Show me another program that you use that has gone that long without bitein' it at LEAST once.

So, in summary, I don't care if its as fat as an elephant. It doesn't have to be. It does everything I need it to and I can easily supplement it with whatever is needed.

[soulkraka]

I used Reason constantly. It used to be all I used, and then I would sample it in Live3 and work with VST Effects on those parts and have a ball.

Now, I use it with Live4 and it is a great way to go. I can easily layer tons of Reason modules in Live with no CPU hit, add some nifty VST Effects, and sequence in Live. Its the ultimate setup as far as I'm concerned.

Quincy, I see what you are saying about thin. Alot of times its hard to get that 800 pound-sound slammin through a mix with Reason...

BUT...I can load a supafat VST Monster that Eats up that dense space and use the 20 pound Reason synths to add flavor, candy, whathaveyou. You can't have 10 huge sounding VSTi's going on or everything is falling all over each other. Showcase that Fat, and sprinkle the thinly stuff around it. My music is better because of Live4 because I can quickly create a huge synth or two with VST's and then use Reason to shine it up.

Redrum is awesome to program in and then dumping that into Live and mangling it with warp markers is really cool. The Matrix may be simple, but because of its CV gating, you can create some freakin cool movement with it. Malstrom is the only synth of its kind and works a treat in many situations. Scream4 is THE distortion plugin. The subtractor may be long in the tooth, but it works great in a mix. You can make it pretty dense, but you don't have to...plenty of other things can do that already.

NN-XT is the best bang-for-your-buck Sampler and has unique features that other big boys don't. The RV7000 is the best Reverb I have found that uses almost no CPU.

And the routing is amazing. You will never get that capability in any other host with any number of VST's. The closed system has a big 'ol leg up on every host with routing. The only system close to it is EnergyXT.

Stability is probably the most amazing thing about Reason. I have never ever ever ever had a single crash....in over 3 years!!! Show me another program that you use that has gone that long without bitein' it at LEAST once.

So, in summary, I don't care if its as fat as an elephant. It doesn't have to be. It does everything I need it to and I can easily supplement it with whatever is needed.

I agree 150%. It sounds like we have almost the exact same workflow. I wonder if our music is similiar? I'm producing Bluegrass...how 'bout you?

[drez]

I agree 150%. It sounds like we have almost the exact same workflow. I wonder if our music is similiar? I'm producing Bluegrass...how 'bout you?

I JUST got out of bluegrass. I was getting so burned out. [extreme sarcasm]

Actually, my parents do alot of "bluegrassin". They travel in their mobile home and go to bluegrass festivals like Deadheads They love it. I enjoy the people as all the bands and families are extremely friendly. Its just that I can't take the music for too long

I'm trying to do breaks style music, but I'm not doing so well. I'm learning, but not where I want to be yet.

Here's the latest unfinished thing me and my buddy are working on...far from complete, basically muting and unmuting parts to see how they fit. Have a LISTEN. Reason and Live4 with some VST's. No real guitars.

[TeeLangSun]

The Malstrom, RV-7000, and Scream are in my opinion unique and excellent among software synths and FX. I'd love to have them as VST plugins. The problem I have with Reason is that in 4 years the above listed items are all that has happened to it worth mentioning. Meanwhile, the sequencer has seen not more than literally 2 or 3 changes and its grossly lacking in "creature features". The little things if you will. At this point, it almost seems like the Props have abandoned development on Reason.

I fear that instead of getting Reason up to speed on the little things that make working faster and easier, the Props will instead spend the next two years making yet another synth. Not that they don't make great synths, but I feel that as much attention should be paid to getting Reason up to speed in the piano roll, sequencer, and interface departments.

For starters, if they insist on having this Rack look, then why not put two racks side by side to ease the amount of scrolling necessary in Reason and make better use of the grossly wasted space. More key commands would be nice. More than 10 undos. Get rid of that silly -3db output limitation and add a serious compressor and limiter so tracks created in Reason won't sound as loud as a mouse fart. That would probably get me back interested.

[smp]

Do not underestimate Reason? I agree. Irrationality is SOOOO overrated.


Sorry. I'll go now.

[drez]

The Malstrom, RV-7000, and Scream are in my opinion unique and excellent among software synths and FX. I'd love to have them as VST plugins. The problem I have with Reason is that in 4 years the above listed items are all that has happened to it worth mentioning. Meanwhile, the sequencer has seen not more than literally 2 or 3 changes and its grossly lacking in "creature features". The little things if you will. At this point, it almost seems like the Props have abandoned development on Reason.

I don't think that they have abandoned Reason. I think that they are going to make it a TON better and that is why they are taking their time. I think it will not be a .5 upgrade. Personally, I don't mind that its sequencer is limited because I use Live now and besides, I play most stuff with my hands and thats what I use.

I fear that instead of getting Reason up to speed on the little things that make working faster and easier, the Props will instead spend the next two years making yet another synth. Not that they don't make great synths, but I feel that as much attention should be paid to getting Reason up to speed in the piano roll, sequencer, and interface departments.

Yeah, same as what I said above. I don't think it will just be a synth. Do you really think that they would take this long to just bring out a couple of synths? Look at the time in between updates. This is far and away the longest time in between updates and my guess is because they are changing it quite a bit.

For starters, if they insist on having this Rack look, then why not put two racks side by side to ease the amount of scrolling necessary in Reason and make better use of the grossly wasted space. More key commands would be nice. More than 10 undos. Get rid of that silly -3db output limitation and add a serious compressor and limiter so tracks created in Reason won't sound as loud as a mouse fart. That would probably get me back interested.

I hope they have all of those things and more.

What I'd REALLy like is to have an update to Rewire where you could have bi-directional audio. If they did that, I wouldn't care if they updated reason at all.