Poll: Best Method to Organize Third-Party Plugins in Live?

[2:43AM]

Recently, my 'C' drive SSD failed and crashed. I am now in the process of rebuilding and reinstalling third-party plugin VST's. Some weird behavior was observed, and I contacted Ableton Tech Support for help. Their response left me a little confused on the best way to go about organizing third-party plugins for Live. So I've created a poll. What is the method, as outlined below, that you use? Thanks for voting. It will be helpful.

Method #1:
The Live User-Manual Method. VST's, either installed or drag-n-droppable, get put into one root folder. All of the .dll files are located in this folder, and said folder may contain sub-folders created automatically by installers. This method has absolutely no organization or category folders. Alias/shortcuts are used within this folder, but only to link and reference other folders that contain plugins, perhaps those came installed with another DAW. In Live, VST Custom Folder is "ON" and Custom Folder is the aforementioned, root folder. Resultant Browser contains everything...FX plugins, instrument plugins, folders, sub-folders, junk folders, etc. Again, absolutely no organization. Some organization can be had by using the Favorites Collection (color-categories) in Live 10.

Method #2:
Have a Plan Beforehand Method. Same root folder as above, but this folder now contains sub-folders of categories, separated into FX, Instruments, Utilities, etc. Inside FX, for example, there may be sub-folders for Saturation, Compressors, Limiters, Delays, etc. As each plugin is installed or drag-dropped into the folder, it is sorted into each sub-folder. This is tedious and installers may inherently create additional folders on their own. Live 10 references this VST Custom Folder "ON", and the resultant Browser will display the category folders and sub-folders as intended. Further organization can be had by using the Favorites Collection (color-categories) in Live 10.

Method #3:
The Alias/Shortcut Method. Same root folder as in Method #1, with everything piled in without regard to organization. This root folder is basically the depository for all third-party plugins. On another drive, or within the same drive, a separate folder is created. This folder contains all of the category and sub-category folders as outlined in Method #2. However, no physical .dll files exist in these folders; only aliases/shortcuts to the plugins. Live 10 references this VST Custom Folder, and the resultant Browser will display all of the plugins and the category folders and sub-folders as intended. According to Ableton Tech Support, however, this method is not advised nor supported. It may cause problems such as crashing or weird behavior. Basically, Ableton is adamantly against this method. However, organization is quick, simple, and straightforward. It's also easy to change and easy to reorganize, if needed down the road. And until Live has some sort of plugin manager built into the Browser (a la Cakewalk Sonar style), then this truly may be the best method despite its inherent problems. Further organization can be had by using the Favorites Collection (color-categories) in Live 10.

Method #4:
Some Other Method?. Have a better way? Let's hear it!

[aMUSEd]

I've been using the alias/shortcut (should add symlinks as more hosts support those but same principle) method for all my hosts for over 12 years now and it's never caused crashes, that's just alarmism. There is a small minority of plugins that need special treatment, mostly these are things like the Reaktor and Absynth extra outs versions but that's just because they are not actual plugins but already aliases to the actual plugin themselves so you just copy them into the alias folder instead. Support saying Live doesn't support it when it's one of the only hosts that actually does support using shortcuts is daft (the other was Orion) - why did they make it that way then? Anyway almost all hosts support symlinks so I moved to those when I switched to Mac as they are easier to setup on Mac.

Certainly much more reliable than physically moving the plugins after install which in my experience can lead to problems with some plugins that have dependencies. Prior organisation doesn't always work as planned, especially on Mac where many plugins give no choice whatsoever over actual install location.

[2:43AM]

Support saying Live doesn't support it when it's one of the only hosts that actually does support using shortcuts is daft (the other was Orion) - why did they make it that way then?

Good point!

Certainly much more reliable than physically moving the plugins after install which in my experience can lead to problems with some plugins that have dependencies. Prior organisation doesn't always work as planned, especially on Mac where many plugins give no choice whatsoever over actual install location.

Absolutely, I agree with this. Not all plugins are just drag-n-droppable with their only file being the .dll on a PC. Some require data files and registry entries in order to work, e.g. to properly draw/display the GUI.

[lachrimae]

Some organization can be had by using the Favorites Collection (color-categories) in Live 10.

I wish the Collections area had about 20 folders available, in addition to sub-folders & dividers.

Overall though, I find it to be pretty effective:

[whyterabbyt]

None of the above. My VST folder is already very carefully organized.

[2:43AM]

None of the above. My VST folder is already very carefully organized.

Then would that not be Method #2?

[whyterabbyt]

None of the above. My VST folder is already very carefully organized.

Then would that not be Method #2?

Rereading, you might be right. I read this as though it was on the Live side of things, which threw me... : "As each plugin is installed or drag-dropped into the folder, it is sorted into each sub-folder."

[marooned ufo]

Best Method to Organize Third-Party Plugins in Live?

You could always wait for Ableton to slowly adopt VST3, just like they did 64 bit and PDC.

[whyterabbyt]

Best Method to Organize Third-Party Plugins in Live?

You could always wait for Ableton to slowly adopt VST3, just like they did 64 bit and PDC.

and what intrinsic VST organisation are you saying the VST3 format offers?

[marooned ufo]

and what intrinsic VST organisation are you saying the VST3 format offers?

Since you already seem to have your mind made up, I'll leave it up to you to research and find out for yourself.

[thecontrolcentre]

I use method #2 pretty much, but my sub-folders are arranged as Effects & Instruments, then by developer. Each plugin then gets its own sub-folder. This setup works well with Sound Forge Pro also.

[whyterabbyt]

and what intrinsic VST organisation are you saying the VST3 format offers?

Since you already seem to have your mind made up, I'll leave it up to you to research and find out for yourself.

so, none, then. thanks.

[aMUSEd]

VST3's do seem to have their own built in categorisation, this is apparent in Studio One for example. However it's entirely out of the hands of the user and dependent on developers choice of categories, which are sometimes odd or even mistaken.

[2:43AM]

I'll throw another fly in the ointment here: Waves plugins and the inability to separate the Waveshell(s) into individual plugins. This doesn't really have an effect either way for Methods #1 or #3, as all the plugins will just be in a Waves folder, but it does make it rather difficult to "pre-sort with a plan" in Method #2.

[pottering]

Live takes the whole path into account when searching for plugins, so a well organized plugin folder with #2 or #3 methods is very advantageous.